Helen Thomas to Jews: 'Get the Hell Out of Palestine'

[quote="estesbob, post:20, topic:200735"]
Of course she is-and we are entitled to comment on her opinion. I suspect there is a lot of support for her view in the White House press room and the Obama administration.

[/quote]

Suspect away, but it might be better to provide some substantiation for your accusation.

[quote="mary_bobo, post:19, topic:200735"]
Of course she can have an opinion. Just hold her out to be an objective journalist. MY opinion is that she should have retired a long time ago and that the defference shown her is ill-placed.

[/quote]

Shes not a jouranlist. She is a columnist . Her columns are geneally
left wing vitrol -she says what most on the Left would liike to say but are afraid of openly voicing their bigotry and hatred

She seems tpo be echoing the comments of the leaders of the Flotila Israel recently stopped:

In response to a radio transmission by the Israeli Navy warning the Gaza flotilla that they are approaching a naval blockade, passengers of the Mavi Marmara respond, "Shut up, go back to Auschwitz" and "We're helping Arabs go against the US, don't forget 9/11".

ghostofaflea.com/archives/014338.html

[quote="estesbob, post:22, topic:200735"]
left wing vitrol -she says what most on the Left would liike to say but are afraid of openly voicing their bigotry and hatred

[/quote]

Which is so in contrast to the bile voiced by right-wing radio and news personalities?

Marvelous how all Good and Truth reside in the Far Right, while Evil and Lies are the exclusive property of the Liberals. Sure.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:9, topic:200735"]
It's her opinion. Good, bad, or indifferent. She's not entitled to her opinion? :shrug:

[/quote]

She is entitled to her opinion, but she is not entitled to the microphone she uses to express it.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:24, topic:200735"]
Which is so in contrast to the bile voiced by right-wing radio and news personalities?

Marvelous how all Good and Truth reside in the Far Right, while Evil and Lies are the exclusive property of the Liberals. Sure.

[/quote]

Just which right-wing new "personalities" might you be referring to? Some of those so labeled are in no way news people, nor do they hold themselves out to be. Helen Thomas is SUPPOSED to be a journalist. Certainly journalists have opinions, but if they are true journalists, one never knows what side they take. A case in point--Chris Wallace.

[quote="mary_bobo, post:26, topic:200735"]
Just which right-wing new "personalities" might you be referring to? Some of those so labeled are in no way news people, nor do they hold themselves out to be. Helen Thomas is SUPPOSED to be a journalist. Certainly journalists have opinions, but if they are true journalists, one never knows what side they take. A case in point--Chris Wallace.

[/quote]

Mary-lets not let him suck us into the moral equivalence game. what Helen Thomas said is disgusting-almost as disgusting as the silence from the Left on her comments.

[quote="estesbob, post:22, topic:200735"]
Shes not a jouranlist. She is a columnist . Her columns are geneally
left wing vitrol -she says what most on the Left would liike to say but are afraid of openly voicing their bigotry and hatred

[/quote]

Criticizing Israel and the Jews is a left wing thing?

[quote="ProVobis, post:28, topic:200735"]
Criticizing Israel and the Jews is a left wing thing?

[/quote]

So you agree with Ms Thomas that Jews should get the hell out of Israel and go back to Poland and Germany?

Helen Thomas Apologizes for Saying Jews Should 'Get the Hell Out of Palestine'

foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/04/white-house-reporter-helen-thomas-apologizes-saying-jews-hell-palestine/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Text+-+Politics%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

The Jews had the land before the Palestinians, and it was 'stolen' from them. Now they've reclaimed that property.

ncregister.com/blog/is_helen_thomas_an_anti-semite/

Just for the record. Telling Jews to go back to where they came from is telling them to go back to Israel.

However, the important question is why the writer of the article felt it so important to defend Helen Thomas' remarks calling for racial cleansing of the Jews from the Jewish state as not "anti-Semitic"?

Palestine was actually named by the Romans after the final Jewish revolt @135 AD

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:24, topic:200735"]

Marvelous how all Good and Truth reside in the Far Right, while Evil and Lies are the exclusive property of the Liberals. .

[/quote]

Finally Rich, you are seeing the light!!! :D

Jimmy Akin is well known to many here as a Catholic apologist. As such, he is used to finely dissecting an issue, and holding the various parts up to the light.

I don't think Akin is defending the comments made by Helen Thomas, quite the opposite. What he is saying that although her comments may be anti-Semitic, we can't pass judgment on her entire personality as anti-Semitic. We don't know if those two comments are so pervasive in her thinking as to actually characterize her. And since her parents were Lebanese, she may have a personal connection to the events of the past 60 years there. So it would be rash to call her anti-Semitic.

BTW, 75% of Israeli citizens are Jewish. And 70% of Jewish Israeli citizens were born in Israel.
haaretz.com/news/statistics-bureau-75-of-israeli-citizens-are-jewish-1.284489

[quote="Dale_M, post:35, topic:200735"]
Jimmy Akin is well known to many here as a Catholic apologist. As such, he is used to finely dissecting an issue, and holding the various parts up to the light.

I don't think Akin is defending the comments made by Helen Thomas, quite the opposite. What he is saying that although her comments may be anti-Semitic, we can't pass judgment on her entire personality as anti-Semitic. We don't know if those two comments are so pervasive in her thinking as to actually characterize her. And since her parents were Lebanese, she may have a personal connection to the events of the past 60 years there. So it would be rash to call her anti-Semitic.

BTW,]

YOU ARE ANTI/SEMITIC if you suggest the Jews do anything wrong. I believe two plus two equals four. and should be able to defend that belief/fact

. 75% of Israeli citizens are Jewish. And 70% of Jewish Israeli citizens were born in Israel.
haaretz.com/news/statistics-bureau-75-of-israeli-citizens-are-jewish-1.284489/QUOTE

The above statement may be true but the real truth is the majority of Jewish families have parents that come from overseas,and they have no genetic link with the Holy Land... that is the point Helen Thomas put across.
How many Jews lived in Palestine when the State of Israel was formed.???

[/quote]

Well, I think the author was mostly caught up on a few technicalities. The underlined portions refer to the positions that Mr. Akin appears (to me) to be taking in the article.

  1. Semitic does not techincally mean "Jewish." Technically it means pertaining to a particular family of languages and the people who speak them. That family of languages includes Arabic and Hebrew both. His point is that since Helen Thomas is of Lebonese descent, she is technically a Semite herself and therefore can't be anti-semitic. I have two main problems with this line of reasoning: [INDENT]a. Semitic may mean a group of languages and the people who speak them, and therefore it refers to both Arab and Jewish people. However, anti-semitic has always meant anti-Jewish. So anti-semitic doesn't, like one would expect from seeing it for the first time, mean "against Semites." That is just a messiness of our language that we have to live with. I like to use language accurately myself, so I don't use "Semitic" as a synonym for "Jewish." But I, just like everyone else, use anti-semitic to mean anti-Jewish. Mr. Akin, with whom I frequently agree on other issues, is in this case being too pedantic even for me, and that's saying something.

b. The fact that a person is a member of a group does not preclude them being against that group anyway. So even if you use the term anti-semite the way Mr. Akin does here, saying "Helen Thomas is a Semite" does not necessarily mean that therefore her statements couldn't be anti-semitic, or even that she couldn't be an anti-semite herself.

  1. There are lots of Jewish people who don't live in Israel. Ms. Thomas doesn't wish anything against them, so technically she isn't against all Jewish people. This one is a little better, and it's true that it would be more accurate to say that her statements are anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist. However, she is wishing harm on something over 5.5 million Jewish people, which is something over a third of the total world Jewish population, and I think that is sufficient to call her remarks anti-semitic.

  2. She isn't wishing the Jewish Israelis dead, she is just wishing them to be moved somewhere else. This is pretty weak. Wishing that a bunch of people, most of whom were actually born in Israel, should be moved back to the countries where they (or their ancesters) suffered the Holocaust is of course better than wishing them dead. But it's not better by a sufficient amount that one of them is anti-semitism and the other isn't. And she does mention America as a place they could go, but only after (as I recall) mentioning Germany and Poland twice each, so America seems a bit of an after-thought.

  3. We can't see into her heart, so we don't know that she is an anti-semite. Well, yes, OK, it is technically true. So it is much better to call her remarks anti-semitic than to call her an anti-semite. But that seems a bit contrived, like he named the article "Is Helen Thomas an Anti-Semite?" instead of "Are Helen Thomas' remarks Anti-Semitic?" just so he could make that point. I mean, as a public figure making public remarks in an astonishingly inappropriate venue, it is completely unnecessary to try to judge her internal disposition. I don't care whether in her heart she is an anti-semite--if she makes anti-semitic remarks in public, the repercussions for that should be based on the remarks, not her internal disposition.[/INDENT]

So I'm afraid that I have to agree that this time Mr. Akin's arguments are unconvincing to me, and it seems to me it would have been better if he hadn't written the article, because at best, it is very easily misunderstood, and I'm not sure why most of it needed to be said.

--Jen

The Romans were unhappy with the Jews, so the Romans named the territory after the name of the Jews’ enemy: the Phillistines … who were red-haired Agean sailors.

the reason i was so shocked when i read this is that i don't know that much about helen thomas. i know she has made other controversial remarks, but i thought she WAS jewish!
so i was really confused. i still say that it is time for her to retire.

I hope that if someone called for "sending the Blacks back to Africa", it would engender in every normal person disgust as being immoral and racist. Likewise, the call to "send the Jews back to Europe" should be equally understood by all to be virulently anti-Semitic. Even Helen Thomas herself has apologized for her comment.

The real question is not that Thomas' statement was anti-Semitic. Hopefully that is a given. The real question concerns the underlying attitudes toward Jews and Judaism which motivated this defense of Thomas.

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