Hello Im not a Catholic but I want to know which is the true Church


#1

Hello Im not a Catholic but I want to know which is the true Church my question is how do you know the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church and not the Eastern Orthodox Church meaning the Greek Orthodox Ukrainian Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox Churches ?


#2

excellent question!

of course if you ask the Catholics, they will say the Catholic Church. if you ask the Orthodox, they will say the Orthodox Church. so who to believe?

i will not provide an answer for this as people may say i am biased. being Catholic, of course i would not believe that the Catholic Church is not the true Church, otherwise why would i stay being a Catholic?

read what Jesus says about this issue:
Matthew 7 15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

so you will know the real one by its fruits, as well as those that are not real. so look and see for yourself. which one carries the teachings of Jesus faithfully and accurately. and pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance on this matter


#3

Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth


#4

VATICAN CITY (Catholic Online) – The Catholic Church is the one, holy, apostolic church of Christ, while other Christian Orthodox and Protestant denominations that “suffer from defects” share elements of “sanctification and of truth,” said the Vatican’s doctrinal congregation. Released July 10 under the title "Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church," the 1,200-word document was signed by U.S. Cardinal William J. Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and congregation secretary Archbishop Angelo Amato, and approved by Pope Benedict XVI before publication....Noting that churches and ecclesial communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church “suffer from defects,” the doctrinal congregation acknowledged that “elements of sanctification and truth” may be present in them.

“It follows that these separated churches and communities … are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation,” the congregation said. “In fact, the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.”
The doctrinal congregation made clear that Vatican II did not modify but rather clarified and made explicit what may have been uncertain or unclear in the field of ecumenical relations. “The Second Vatican Council neither changed nor intended to change” Catholic doctrine on the church, it said, “rather it developed, deepened and more fully explained it.”
It said that the Second Vatican Council was clear in stating that Christ’s church “subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him.”

That phrase affirms that the “historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ” are only present in the Catholic Church, the congregation said.
It noted that the Orthodox faith communities are called “churches,” though separate from the Catholic Church, as they have retained apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Because of those close bonds, the congregation said, they merit the title of churches and are seen as “sister churches” of specific Catholic churches.

Yet, Christian communities “born out of the Reformation” do not share that union as they “do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of orders,” the Vatican congregation said. “These ecclesial communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called churches in the proper sense,” it said. In a “commentary” issued with the document, the congregation said that “ecumenical dialogue remains one of the priorities of the Catholic Church.”
Yet, it stressed that such dialogue must be founded on “not just mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith.”

The congregation noted that, while "Catholic ecumenism might seem, at first sight, somewhat paradoxical,” the Second Vatican Council has sought to “try to harmonize two doctrinal affirmations” that, despite existent Christian divisions, “the church of Christ continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church” and that “elements of sanctification and truth do exist … in ecclesial communities that are not fully in communion with the Catholic Church." “The fullness of the Catholic Church, therefore, already exists, but still has to grow in the brethren who are not yet in full communion with it and also in its own members who are sinners.”

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=24660

newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm


#5

scripturecatholic.com/index.html

This is amazing website that you must check out. It should really help you.


#6

Well, from my prespective I would suggest the following:
First, go to the source of the Catholic Church. Where did it start, how can you provie it?
Answer: It begins in Chapter 16 of the gospel of Matthew, wherein Jesus is giving His apostles a quiz. “Who do people say that I am”? There are many replys from what the apostles have heard. Then He asks, “Who do you say that I am”? And immediately Peter responds, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” - paraphrase. Jesus responds, - - - - - and this is critical - - - - “Blessed are you Peter, Son of Jonah, for no mere mortal has given this answer to you, but My Heavenly Father…” paraphrase.
God the Father chose, Abram, to accept the faith and become a great nation and changed his name to Abraham - see Gensis.
God the Father chose, Moses, to lead His people.
And at that moment above with Jesus, God the Father chose Peter, to lead His people.

How can you prove this is true.
Answer: Get a list of all the popes and you can trace the lineage back to Jesus.

Now, how did the Orthodox Church form? My history may be fogging on this, so please someone who is up to date on history please correct as needed.
Answer: Not at the moment that Jesus formed His church the Catholic church, many hundreds of years later as history illustrates that when the barbarian invasions of Europe were in process, that Constantopile was literally cut off from Rome for some period of time, and without modern communications, the church in Constantopile even thought Rome and all the Church had been destroyed by the barbarians, and this ocurred at a time when the leaders of the Church in Canstantnople were in some disagreement with Rome, such that the two events, i.e invasion and arguement led to the Eastern Church taking the “lead” only to discover later that Rome had not been wiped out by the barbarians.
However those two events created the catalyst that led to the formation of the Orthodox church, and from which, the Orthodox church never came to an agreement on their arguement with Rome - even today. I believe the last big issue still unresolved is accepting the authority of the Pope as the sole leader of the Church.


#7

Great advice! :thumbsup:


#8

[quote="Julian0404, post:6, topic:186507"]
Well, from my prespective I would suggest the following:
First, go to the source of the Catholic Church. Where did it start, how can you provie it?
Answer: It begins in Chapter 16 of the gospel of Matthew, wherein Jesus is giving His apostles a quiz. "Who do people say that I am"? There are many replys from what the apostles have heard. Then He asks, "Who do you say that I am"? And immediately Peter responds, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" - paraphrase. Jesus responds, - - - - - and this is critical - - - - "Blessed are you Peter, Son of Jonah, for no mere mortal has given this answer to you, but My Heavenly Father..." paraphrase.
God the Father chose, Abram, to accept the faith and become a great nation and changed his name to Abraham - see Gensis.
God the Father chose, Moses, to lead His people.
And at that moment above with Jesus, God the Father chose Peter, to lead His people.

How can you prove this is true.
Answer: Get a list of all the popes and you can trace the lineage back to Jesus.

Now, how did the Orthodox Church form? My history may be fogging on this, so please someone who is up to date on history please correct as needed.
Answer: Not at the moment that Jesus formed His church the Catholic church, many hundreds of years later as history illustrates that when the barbarian invasions of Europe were in process, that Constantopile was literally cut off from Rome for some period of time, and without modern communications, the church in Constantopile even thought Rome and all the Church had been destroyed by the barbarians, and this ocurred at a time when the leaders of the Church in Canstantnople were in some disagreement with Rome, such that the two events, i.e invasion and arguement led to the Eastern Church taking the "lead" only to discover later that Rome had not been wiped out by the barbarians.
However those two events created the catalyst that led to the formation of the Orthodox church, and from which, the Orthodox church never came to an agreement on their arguement with Rome - even today. I believe the last big issue still unresolved is accepting the authority of the Pope as the sole leader of the Church.

[/quote]

You really need to brush up on your history. Even Rome acknowledges that the Orthodox Church has existed since the beginning. We were one until 1054. While there were disagreements and arguments, the churches were not at any point suddenly completely cut off from each other, although that did gradually happen, there was never any belief that "Rome" had been wiped out by barbarians.


#9

“I tell you Simon, you are rock and on this rock I will build my Church.”–Mathew 16:18

Jesus built his Church on Peter. Find the Church that is lead by the successor of Peter, and you have the one, single, true Christian Church. The successer of Peter is the Bishop of Rome. Only the Roman Catholic Church is led by the Bishop of Rome.

The “leader” of the Eastern Orthodox Church is the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Patriarch of Constantinople is not the successor of Peter.

The same exact truth applies to all Protest-ant denominations. Each of the thousands upon thousands of Protest-ant sects were created by men within the last 500 years and are not led by the successor of Peter, therefore, they are not the one, single, true Christian Church established in the upper room by Jesus in a.d. 33.

Case closed :thumbsup:

David


#10

Where did Christ mention the successors of Peter?


#11

It's the Kingdom of God, not the Democracy of God. Christ wasn't the "first among equals." Peter wasn't the "first among equals" and the leader of Christianity today isn't the "first among equals."

This isn't hard brother.


#12

I looked for the answer to this question for 2 years after I returned to the Church, as my husband indicated more willingness to go to an Orthodox church than the Catholic.

Finally I found a book called Jesus, Peter, and the Keys, which totally answered my question. It has history, and quotes from the Early Church Fathers, Protestants, Catholics, *and Orthodox *writers to show that the Catholic Church is correct on this issue. If this is a big question in your life, this book will explain the answer. You can probably get it through your library or else through inter-library loan.


#13

That didn’t answer the question. Taking out the disagreement on the nature of primacy, and accepting the incorrect idea that Christ created an earthly monarchy (Matthew 16:23 seems to contradict that), how do you get Rome as the one to hold that power as his successor?

By the way, “First Among Equals” is one of the Popes titles.


#14

There is no one true church. The true church lives in the hearts and lives of those Christians who do their best to serve Christ and follow his example. These belong to a variety of churches - yes, probably even a variety of faiths, including Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, etc.

When Jesus was asked how to inherit eternal life, he didn't point the inquirer to a church or to a set of doctrines. He answered by saying love God and love your neighbor. When the lawyer wanted a fuller response, Jesus gave the parable of the Good Samaritan.

 Who was the hero of that story? Someone despised by the Jews because the Samaritans has intermarried with gentiles and had a religion which differed from traditional Judaism. 

  The lesson: don't judge people by their church connection or their doctrines but by their love of God and their efforts to serve God through serving others.

  That, friends, is the way to determine the true church.

#15

[quote="Julian0404, post:6, topic:186507"]
Well, from my prespective I would suggest the following:
First, go to the source of the Catholic Church. Where did it start, how can you provie it?
Answer: It begins in Chapter 16 of the gospel of Matthew, wherein Jesus is giving His apostles a quiz. "Who do people say that I am"? There are many replys from what the apostles have heard. Then He asks, "Who do you say that I am"? And immediately Peter responds, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" - paraphrase. Jesus responds, - - - - - and this is critical - - - - "Blessed are you Peter, Son of Jonah, for no mere mortal has given this answer to you, but My Heavenly Father..." paraphrase.
God the Father chose, Abram, to accept the faith and become a great nation and changed his name to Abraham - see Gensis.
God the Father chose, Moses, to lead His people.
And at that moment above with Jesus, God the Father chose Peter, to lead His people.

How can you prove this is true.
Answer: Get a list of all the popes and you can trace the lineage back to Jesus.

Now, how did the Orthodox Church form? My history may be fogging on this, so please someone who is up to date on history please correct as needed.
Answer: Not at the moment that Jesus formed His church the Catholic church, many hundreds of years later as history illustrates that when the barbarian invasions of Europe were in process, that Constantopile was literally cut off from Rome for some period of time, and without modern communications, the church in Constantopile even thought Rome and all the Church had been destroyed by the barbarians, and this ocurred at a time when the leaders of the Church in Canstantnople were in some disagreement with Rome, such that the two events, i.e invasion and arguement led to the Eastern Church taking the "lead" only to discover later that Rome had not been wiped out by the barbarians.
However those two events created the catalyst that led to the formation of the Orthodox church, and from which, the Orthodox church never came to an agreement on their arguement with Rome - even today. I believe the last big issue still unresolved is accepting the authority of the Pope as the sole leader of the Church.

[/quote]

Obviously this is a Catholic website and the OP is going to get Catholic responses but if you are going to comment on the Orthodox Church at least try to be accurate. You yourself said that your history may be foggy so why risk giving incomplete or inaccurate info?

Now my recommendation to the OP. Follow mardukm's advice. Go straight to the horses mouth. Ask the Catholics what they believe and why and then ask the Orthodox what they believe and why. Do not go to the cow and ask them about the horse, their info may not be correct. ;)

Yours in Christ
Joe


#16

I’ll tell you the same thing I told an earlier poster. I’m sure the OP is expecting Catholic answers (no pun intended) but if you are going to comment on Orthodoxy do not give false information. I know that you’re speaking out of ignorance but out of respect if you aren’t familiar with Orthodox teaching or belief you should refrain from commenting on it in the future. :thumbsup:

Yours in Christ
Joe


#17

This article expresses it beautifully.

Why I'm not Eastern Orthodox:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp


#18

[quote="dnu, post:17, topic:186507"]
This article expresses it beautifully.

Why I'm not Eastern Orthodox:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp

[/quote]

Misunderstandings and logical fallacies are why you aren't Orthodox? :confused:


#19

[quote="truthseeker2006, post:1, topic:186507"]
Hello Im not a Catholic but I want to know which is the true Church my question is how do you know the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church and not the Eastern Orthodox Church meaning the Greek Orthodox Ukrainian Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox Churches ?

[/quote]

Hello Truthseeker, the true Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ on person of Peter, when Jesus handed him the Keys to the Kingdom and said the immortal words
"You are Peter the rock and on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" the keys of the kingdom and the command to bind and loose onearth were given to Peter (Matt 16,19). The Lord instructed Peter the Strengthen the Brethern (Lk 22:31-32)
It was to Peter that Our Lord entrusted the care of His flock, lambs and sheep (Jn 21:15-17)
there are many many references to the Primacy of Peter (and his descendents the Popes) in Scriptures. It is only pride I think which refuses to allow the one church of Jesus to be united under Peter.
However thats another story..
GraceAngel.


#20

It is contained, implicitly, in:

  1. Matthew 28:19 (“Make disciples of all nations…”). Since the Apostles could not reach the physical ends of the earth in their lifetimes and were, except for one, likely all martyred, someone had to carry on, else the Church would end contrary to Christ’s words (“the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”); and

  2. the extraordinary and unprecedented power He gave the Apostles to bind and loose “whatever” on earth and in heaven (Matthew 16:19, 18:18).

I assure you, without successors to Peter, there would exist no Orthodox, or Catholic Church, let alone the thousands of newer developments. Christ knew exactly what the Apostles would do with this power before they did it, and gave it to them with that knowledge.


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