Help, a little please


#21

Regarding Hosea 11:1 and then Matthew 2:15

“Rich, in your post you admit that the son called out of Egypt is Israel. That’s good! But you have offered nothing that explains Matthew’s claim that the son called out of Egypt is Jesus. After years of looking for an explanation from the Christian perspective, the only reasonable explanation for the discrepancy seems to be that Matthew was intentionally lying about what the scripture really means.

By the way, Matthew lies about other scriptures too – the Hosea one is not an isolated example – but let’s stick with the Hosea one for now.”

Anyone help here?


#22

All this means is that Matthew didn’t see scripture in the same way that Rick sees scripture. He didn’t approach it and say there was only one possible meaning. Christian scriptures admit to having several meanings within one verse. They can be interpreted in various ways. So at once the Hosea quote can refer to both Israel and to Christ. This is not restricted to Matthew. It even goes throughout Christian history. If you read something like St. Ephrem’s hymns you will see that he draws various meanings from a scriptural text. So Matthew was not lying, it was just his worldview and also the Christian worldview.


#23

First of all, the best way to really expose Mormonism isn’t just to argue about Jesus being God since they and the JW’s have distorted their Bibles so badly that they only know and trust their distorted version of the text. A better way to expose the truth about Mormonism is to show that Joseph Smith was NOT a prophet but a future seer who’s prophecies did actually come into fruition and Mormonisms so called trail of chosen people through South America have never been confirmed by secular nor any reputable archeologist because it is a scham. This angle won’t make you very popular in that site I’m afraid, but it may help some see Joseph Smith as a fraud.
Another angle to take this is not starting from the OT and working your way back to the New Testament but starting from who Jesus claimed to be. In John 8:51-59 Jesus claims to be God Himself as He draws from the same argument with the Samaritan woman at the well quoting from John 4:12 who asked Him…
"Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?"
Jesus answered in verses 13-14
"Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again; but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; **the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” **

Notice Jesus is saying He will give eternal life to others, something the Jews believed only God Himself could do.
Now back to John 8:51-59 where Jesus says…
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death." (So) the Jews said to him, "Now we are sure that you are possessed. Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘Whoever keeps my word will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? Or the prophets, who died? Who do you make yourself out to be?"
Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is worth nothing; but it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ You do not know him, but I know him. And if I should say that I do not know him, I would be like you a liar. But I do know him and I keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad.
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area."
Notice Jesus is saying He was there at the time of Abraham which would mean Jesus was saying He IS eternal. And notice that Jesus is saying He is the “I AM” which really made the Jews blow gaskets for they knew the Mosaic law, how Moses going before God in Exodus 3:14 where God told Moses to tell the Isrealites “I AM sent me to you” The Jews also knew Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, Israel’s King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me."
And under Jewish law any man claiming to be God would have been an extreme blasphemer and worthy of death by stoning, that’s why in verse 59 the Jews picked up stones to throw at Him to kill Him, but Jesus being God was able to make His way out of harm for His time had not come to die for all people.

Now, if there is but one God (which Christianity affirms) and God told Moses that His name is “I AM” yet Jesus is saying He was there at the time of Abraham in John 8:56 that Abraham actually rejoiced to see His day…and furthermore, Jesus said He was the “I AM” in John 8:58 a name strictly reserved for the one God alone, so is Jesus a liar and not God or is He actually calling Himself God?
Obviously Jesus wasn’t a liar, so that leaves us with the only conclusion which is He claimed to be God and proved it.

If this has been helpfull, I will post more later and how Jesus forgave sin something only God can do. Hop that helps.


#24

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