Before I begin, I just want to start with this: my ex-wife K is a beautiful person, inside and out; she’s always striving daily to please God and help others. She has her faults like we all do but she meditates on God 24/7; I don’t think I’ve met someone who is as faithful as she is. However, I’m afraid for the new friends she has made. I can’t be certain that this group is a cult, it’s just a fear; They believe and worship Jesus Christ, and it seems okay, it’s just some of the things they do and say are bizarre to me. For example, leaving your body and seeing the Heavenly Kingdom, saying that the Kingdom of God is on earth now; they pray to God and Jesus, but also to Melchizzedek (sp?), Deborah (old testament prophet); they pray to angels and claim to see angels… have had “Shared dreams”; even going as far as to say that God sees his people as gods (???) which was immediately a red flag to me as this is as old as the Genesis verse in the temptation of Adam. K is very naive and feels like she finally fits into a group of people. I just don’t know if they’re legitimate or not. Alot of what they say is according to doctrine, but the visions, and writings… they almost seem like endless geneologies. they combine science and religion, stating that they give off energy and claim to use that energy to heal people/situations. It’s all just too scary for me; they seem like nice people, I just can’t help the sinking feeling I get. they listen to Ian Clayton and believe somewhat alongside the things he says and does, “leaving the body”, “soul transportation”, etc. They claim to get revelation from God daily… Please pray for everyone involved; If it is indeed a bad cult, please Lord Jesus Christ open up their eyes to it and let them return to the faith. K is a confirmed catholic, she was confirmed when we were married so I think she’s safe… I just fear for her safety and the safety of my daughter. Please everyone say a prayer for them. Is anyone familiar with this doctrine/have come across it before?
Your concern is justified. Your ex-wife is involved in some kind of spiritualist cult. It is not faithful to Catholic belief.
“Shared dreams” “leaving the body”, “soul transportation” these are more aligned with the occult. This kind of cult leaves souls open to be misled. The claim to get revelation from God daily, without the prudence of the Church to guide them, means that they can be led in all kinds of direction that suits them or their leaders.
Jesus teaches that we only enter heaven after the judgement of souls, (Mathew 25 verses 31-46…to highlight one of the errors of this cult.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary.
Your wife and child need much prayer as do the others involved.
May God bless and protect them, and you
Yes, that is exactly it/what they’re saying: they’re saying God is trying to break down the walls of “Religion” and see to it that everyone knows they are already forgiven for sins past, present, and future. (which, might I add, completely goes against my logic of sinning and the necessity of repenting). Only problem is, every time I’ve tried to talk to her about her possibly being misled she BLOWS UP on me, literally; she’s trying to protect the only friends and people who “get” her, threatens to cut me out of her/my daughter’s life; they even say “we will be accused of being a cult”; it hurts me to see her fall for this because she is so sweet but very naive. I love her as the mother of my child and I always will, no matter what even though we are no longer together in marriage which is why I’ll always pray for her. It’s not just my daughter either; she means alot to me as a person. She’s suffered much in her life, with mental situations and otherwise harmful situations with people. I want her to experience the Holy Trinity, but not in the way this group depicts it; no one is allowed to see the Kingdom of Heaven and return to earth; furthermore, there are no possessions of any kind similar to those we have on earth, which is another thing they claim to see houses and mansions and places on other planets where they live; claim to see the past, present and future. That any request can be demanded extradition, instead of conforming to God’s time table. why is this so prevalent? its as if the enemy has studied her for many years idle, then came out with this. I pray everyone join me in these prayers and petitions, not just for K but for everyone who is involved/falling for this false doctrine:
Our Father, who art in Heaven; hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not in temptation but deliver us from evil; for Thine is the Kingdom, the power, and the Glory, forever and ever. Amen
St. Michael the Archangel, be our defense in battle; protect us from the wickedness and snares of the devil may GOD rebuke him we humbly pray; and do you, O prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit thrust into hell satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb Jesus Christ; Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
It’s sad that your attempts to enlighten your ex-wife only brings threats to cut you out of your daughter’s life. That is a serious threat. I doubt that you can convince your ex-wife of anything, as living in an ideal fantasy is more attractive to some people than living in thee real world, and requiring to be patient and faithful, trusting in God’s quiet ways as we must. It can also be exciting for some people to feel that they are exclusive, that they have wonderful secrets and abilities, so no, arguing the truth with her is likely to continue to draw the angry response she has already given.
Remember though that God has given her and your daughter a gift. Your prayer for them and your faithfulness to Him. In the end this will surely assist their souls before God.
It is saddening that you have lost your marriage and daily life with your daughter, and now see them going on a dangerous path. May God give you lasting faith and courage and may God console your heart.
Our Father, who art in Heaven; hallowed be Thy name.
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not in temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen
St. Michael the Archangel, be our defense in battle; protect us from the wickedness and snares of the devil may God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do you, O prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit thrust into hell satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus Christ; Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
This just sounds like typical New Age stuff. I doubt that your ex-wife or daughter is in any physical danger. They are usually the peaceful, dreamy types. However, obviously, it’s not Catholic or even legitimate Christianity and could pose some spiritual danger. My advice is to pray, ask for intercession and maybe talk to your daughter directly. Maybe you can listen to this radio show together: catholic.com/radio/shows/the-new-age-deception-9915
It CAN certainly lead to some bad things, like the show says, but I think those are the most extreme cases.
Your wife is an adult. You may have to leave her to what ever belief system she is involved in and lay that in the hands of God. However, you daughter is not an adult, and if you feel she in danger you need to address this with the law and the courts.
I don’t like to see children in the middle of some ugly custody battle, but if a child is in danger while with one of his/her parents then the other parents is obligated to address that and seek full custody. You would have to be able to prove the nature of the danger and why your child is in harms way.
Given our “Freedom of Religion” you will find your ability to do this very difficult if not nearly impossible. The courts are not going to be concerned by Catholic versus Other Belief System. They are only going to be concerned about actual mental or physical harm.
I would only say this: is it possible that a person could have an out of body experience or see visions of heaven or hell? CERTAINLY! Many saints have had and even written about their experiences with this. The real question is whether or not it is PROBABLE that your ex wife and this entire group are experiencing such things—and to that, I’d humbly say that it’s unlikely in my opinion. I’m unfamiliar with this particular faith, but I fell away from the church for over 30 years before returning and during that time, I “tried on” a variety of faiths and religions to see if they fit. Any religion that claims everyone in it has regular visions or deals with “energy” as a leading or healing force is usually some type of “New Age” drivel.
Your ex wife may indeed be a lovely person, but I’d say she has already fallen away from the Catholic church and if she doesn’t come to her senses soon, her “faith” will become more and more bizarre and if she is raising your daughter, it’s very likely that the child will eventually be sucked into it too. Many of these religions are forms of Wicca–if she starts speaking of the “Goddess” or sacred circles or the power of the 4 quadrants (north, south, east and west) you can be sure that this is the case!
I will keep you all in my prayers.
Sometimes all we can do is pray for people and as Aussie Trash above stated, your prayer and faithfulness to Him is a great gift. Pray daily for her and live your Catholic faith. There is something shocking in people that live out their faith in Christ. There is a peace and joy in it and people notice it. By just being loving and praying for her you provide a stability and a light that she can always reflect back on. It is awesome that you still love her enough to be concerned for her.
Many blessings to you and I will offer my prayers this day for all of you
I pray for Philly,
Grant him 1. the serenity to accept the things he cannot change,
2. the courage to change the things he can,
and the wisdom to know
the difference between the two.
Lord have mercy.
Thank you all for your encouraging responses! To the first post involving courts/custody, no it is nowhere near that; as far as K and I go we are on great terms, I get to see my daughter whenever she/we have free time on our hands and its only in times she gets a bit fiery in response to my questioning of this new religion/belief system does she respond as such. I would never even think of involving the courts; she is a wonderful mother and person, and her love for our daughter knows no bounds; she does everything she can to protect her and I know and see that daily. Now to get back to her friends, and in answer to the post about derivatives of wicca: the odd thing is as what you say, they have talked about north, south, west, east, etc., even talk about chakra’s and alignment of such but they aren’t horrible people. I mean, they’re very pro-active when it comes to casting something out in the name of Jesus Christ; also as far as I know they are against witchcraft, occult practices, and so on. but it still seems so dangerously close to spiritualism and that’s where my concern comes in. I love them both–so much. I guess it’s just the protective side of me that kicks in, and I’m oldschool when it comes to faith. (10 years of CCD, confirmation classes, and weekly masses though I’ve not made all of them have instilled that in me). The gift of faith is definitely something I have and with help from you guys, will continue to nourish through these hard times. I’m thanking God for all of you right now–to be honest, some of the responses had me in tears (that someone would care this much to reach out to my family). For this I thank you, and I will keep praying, perhaps even start going to adoration and looking for the answer on this one. I love you all
Praying for you, your family & your wife.
Be careful. If this is truly a cult…cults will try to convince their members to not trust anyone outside the group. They may try to push your ex-wife away from you and convince her that she and your daughter are only safe with them.
Praying for your Ex., for you and for your daughter. May the Holy Spirit
Guide and protect each one of you, in HIS way ! :signofcross:
There are Protestant more ‘cultish’-type groups, but also Protestant groups that flow in the Holy Spirit. I recognize, as a P. myself, things you wrote, and although it sounds unusual to you from your background they may be ok.
I will re read what you wrote and write you back more. I think they may be ok,.as a Protestant group.
Cult I think means that leader dominates to exclusion of the thinking of the individual.
What’s the name of it or the website for this organization?
Astral Projection = new age. “leaving the body”, “soul transportation”
give off energy and claim to use that energy to heal people/situations = seems new age to me, sounds similar to chakra teaching.
The teaching is that there are 7 chakras and that each deals with a different part of your body/energy. If you have certain problems, then you have a problem with one of the chakras. Or Reiki (which is another energy healing technique that the New Age people like).
*saying that the Kingdom of God is on earth now; they pray to God and Jesus, but also to Melchizzedek (sp?), Deborah (old testament prophet); they pray to angels and claim to see angels… *
This part is just twisted. If it’s not a cult (in the strictest sense of the word), then there’s a lot of false Christian teaching going on. You are right to be worried.
I’m glad that you are concerned about your ex because it’s so easy to get caught up in New Age ideas, especially if someone claims these teachings under a Christian banner.
If someone is particularly vulnerable and/or not strong in their faith, then they could unknowingly getting into some occult stuff. In studying the New Age, you’ve really got to know your limits on learning about it and getting into this community. If you don’t have discernment, then it can get spiritually dangerous, real quick.
We are told that there are angels among us, but we aren’t supposed to actively seek them out. I don’t have a problem with seeing angels, but if it’s more than once or twice and there’s not either a revelation or a purpose…then, you have to wonder what the person is really seeing. (Remember Mary was told by Gabriel about birthing Jesus. Abraham entertained angels and told him that Sarah would have a child - and she laughed. People have claimed to have seen angels at terrible accident scenes, for example…)
I was constantly asking for guidance from God as I’d read different books and learning about different topics. Sometimes, I just didn’t tackle a topic because it just set off too many alarm bells in my soul. I just knew it wasn’t something I was supposed to learn about or read.
Also, flowing in the spirit is different than what is being described here. Many of the things that OP described are not Christian teaching, even for Protestants. You never flow with the Spirit in a church that actively prays to anyone outside of the Trinity (or Mary, or the Saints in Catholicism). Remember, bad spirits can disguise themselves as good. There’s a spirit flowing, but I wouldn’t call it the Holy Spirit, in the Christian/Catholic context of the concept.
Anyway, I thought I’d add my perspective. Adding my prayers to the chain. Peace be with you.
It sounds like new age and can become very serious…I know branches of new age that even advocate cutting off your family and usually they have to pay a lot of $$ to “advance” to the next level.
I do have a friend who obtained “spiritual custody” of her children so that she could safeguard her children’s spiritual well-being.
I am sorry for you. Our daughter left the USA and her Catholic faith nearly 3 years ago to go and live in Australia with a ‘religious group’, here is my advice while you still have contact. Go to the ICSA website immediately and seek out help and keep a secret from your loved ones for now. We made the same mistakes you are making now, you may lose them if you do not make the right moves. Does anyone here now of a Catholic Anti-Cult help group that can help us Catholics? The Protestants have a Watchman Fellowship Group (Do not confuse with Watchtower Jehovah’s Witnesses Cult). We have considered using them, but would much prefer a professional Catholic group that understands cults? Can someone please help us?
I think you would first need to demonstrate that the group and primarily it’s leadership is or has been breaking the law. If that’s the case you can snatch them out with only a Judges order executed via the local police dept.
National Geographic did a special on a Seventh Day Adventist offshoot cult that was “doing stuff to young girls” and convincing the married males within the group to release their wives so that they could “consummate” sexually with the cult leader who went by the name of “Michael Christ” ( SDA’s do believe that Jesus was Michael the archangel ).
You might get some ideas from the watching the following - particularly the part where the Sherriff extracts a girl ( who the cult had already renamed ).
Here is the video link