HELP I have a friend that is a Fundamentalist


#1

Hi everyone, I am so excited to be here and hopefully get some answers. I am a REVERT and although it was tough on my marriage and family, I am happy to be home for about 5 years now. Consequently, many former friends, from protestant churches have either left our friendship or still try to battle the issues with me. I don’t have all the answers so here goes my ?
My friend, whom is a fundamentalist, will not believe in the Papacy or the infallibility of the pope when speaking on faith and morals. She says she sees no scripture to back it up. My question to her is where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole rule of faith? She won’t answer that question no matter how I slice it, or ask it?
Thanks for any and all help…
2BinChrist


#2

Here are a few verses I’m familiar with regarding papal infallability and sola scriptura.

1 Peter 1:21
"First of all, you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

John 14:26
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
(Said to Jesus’ disciples; similar verse in John 16:12-13)

Matthew 16:18-20
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
(Papal office established; the powers of death or evil will not prevail against it, and have not for 2000 years!)

1 Timothy 3:15
"If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church and bulwark of the truth." (The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth!)

2 Peter 3:16
"There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures."
(The importance of a teaching authority.)

1 Corinthians 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you."
(Not the written scripture alone)

John 21:25
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written."

2 Thessalonians 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (Oral traditions passed down through time)


#3

Perhaps these books can help you?

“POPE FICTION -Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy” by Patrick Madrid. :smiley:

“WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE?” by Patrick Madrid (When non-Catholics start quoting Bible verses to “prove” that Catholic teachings aren’t biblical, reach for this powerful Bible-based explanation and defense of the Catholic Faith!) :thumbsup:

:blessyou:


#4

[quote=2BinChrist]…My friend, whom is a fundamentalist, will not believe in the Papacy or the infallibility of the pope when speaking on faith and morals…
[/quote]

PAPACY & APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION
Primacy of Peter
Mt 16:18 - upon this rock (Peter) I will build my church
Mt 16;19 - give you keys of the kingdom; power to bind & loose
Lk 22:32 - Peter’s faith will strengthen his brethren
Jn 21:17 - given Christ’s flock as chief shepherd
Mk 16:7 - angel sent to announce Resurrection to Peter
Lk 24:34 - risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - headed meeting which elected Matthias
Acts 2:14 - led Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - received first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - performed first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - inflicted first punishment: Ananias & Saphira
Acts 8:21 - excommunicated first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - received revelation to admit Gentiles into Church
Acts 15:7 - led first council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:19 - pronounces first dogmatic decision
Gal 1:18 - after conversion, Paul visits chief Apostle
Peter’s name always heads list of Apostles: Mt 10;14; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13
"Peter and his companions" Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7
Spoke for Apostles - Mt 18:21; Mk 8:29; Lk 8:45; 12:41; Jn 6:69
Peter’s name occurs 195 times, more than all the rest put together

Infallible Church
Jn 16:13 - guided by Holy Spirit into all truth
Jn 14:26 - Holy Spirit to teach & remind them of everything
Lk 10:16 - speak with Christ’s own voice
1Tim 3:15 - Church called "pillar and foundation of truth"
1Jn 2:27 - anointing of Holy Spirit remains in you
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with voice of Holy Spirit
Mt 28:20 - I am with you

source: geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/biblecheatsheet.html

See also: catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp


#5

Here’s a short article that may help:

Papal Infallibility
catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

And a longer one for follow-up questions:

Pope Fiction
envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.2/mar_apr98_coverstory.html


#6

Remember the old (Dominican?) advice: win an argument, lose a soul. Answer sincere questions as patiently and lovingly as you can and let questions designed to bait you roll off your back.

Racer X made a great point awhile back:

Also, you can only contradict conclusions in two ways

**1. Pointing out the fallacies in their logic. ** This is bad idea since it just makes most people defensive.
2. Showing that the facts they based it on are wrong. A better choice since they don’t feel at fault and false-facts are almost always the problem with these types of Protestants.

So pointing out the logical fallacy that Sola Scriptura is not even implied in Scripture is fine, but don’t keep banging that drum as it will just cause shutdown. Rather show her that someone fed her incorrect information and that papal infallibility is implied in Scripture. That is, make a case for your faith rather than attempting to kick the legs out from under her faith.

Scott


#7

2 Thessalonians 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (Oral traditions passed down through time)


It is one thing for Paul to expect the Thessalonians to adhere to what they had heard first-hand from him. It is quite another to expect me to believe that oral tradition was passed down accurately over a period of centuries. Anyone along the line, whether by honest mistake or a power-grab, could have easily distorted it.

We don’t want to be like fundamentalists, “proof-texting” a verse (in this case 2 Thes. 2:15) because it appears to support our own opinion instead of reading it in the context of the entire Pauline corpus. Paul wrote the Thessalonians BEFORE he wrote Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, 1, 2 Corinthians, 1, 2 Timothy and Titus (which taken together should virtually obviate any further need for Pauline “oral tradition”). Moreover, in his farewell letter to Timothy shortly before he died, he never once appealed to him to stand fast to oral tradition, but the Scripture (2 Tim. 3:14-17).


#8

[quote=JohnRef]2 Thessalonians 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (Oral traditions passed down through time)


It is one thing for Paul to expect the Thessalonians to adhere to what they had heard first-hand from him. It is quite another to expect me to believe that oral tradition was passed down accurately over a period of centuries. Anyone along the line, whether by honest mistake or a power-grab, could have easily distorted it.

We don’t want to be like fundamentalists, “proof-texting” a verse (in this case 2 Thes. 2:15) because it appears to support our own opinion instead of reading it in the context of the entire Pauline corpus. Paul wrote the Thessalonians BEFORE he wrote Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, 1, 2 Corinthians, 1, 2 Timothy and Titus (which taken together should virtually obviate any further need for Pauline “oral tradition”). Moreover, in his farewell letter to Timothy shortly before he died, he never once appealed to him to stand fast to oral tradition, but the Scripture (2 Tim. 3:14-17).
[/quote]

(2 Tim. 3:14-17)
“But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” - Am I misunderstanding you? If so, please correct me. I don’t see how this negates oral tradition? This particular passage says Scriptures are “God-breathed” and “useful”. Where does it negate oral tradition? It confirms that the Bible is the Word of God but does not identify it as the only means of transmitting God’s word.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.