HERE is the (off site) thread I am talking about
The thing about Calvinists, and, I’m sure you already are MORE than familiar with this, is they do not believe in free will. They believe God choses some to be damned. Does that not send off alarms in his head?
I try and try to get this across, but they come back with the idea that “oh, well thats the cold ugly truth of salvation” and say stuff like, "you guys dont understand, we all deserve hell, yet God in his infinite goodness selects some to be saved. You guy focus on what man wants instead of what God wants, God didnt have to save anyone, but He did."
Stuff like this just kills me. On one account it makes sense, but on the other hand it seems so cold and heartless.
AND, to the first point he made, again, question him about free will, if you so will. God WANTS people to be saved, but, he doesn’t force it, now does He? (But, this is what you said, isn’t it?)
Here is the problem, he says that “God can want anything , yet who can stop Him from getting what He wants?” He asks if God is so powerful a human cant get in the way of what he wants.
I ask about Satan and Adam on if God made them sin or they did it themself. He goes into God’s different types of wills, I dont follow.
Even ignoring theology and going from a purely logical position, this guy has as serious problem. He states that saying God WANTS everyone to be saved is the same as saying that everyone WILL be saved. Even a first grader can tell you that wanting something doesn’t mean that it will happen. Even when you add in the fact that God has the POWER to save everybody, this still leaves out the important step of God having to choose to use the power.
I have tried to say this, but he uses the same type of approach to claim it means the same at the end of the day. That is a key issue.
ay my ex girlfriend and I broke up 3 times. Assume I WANT to get back together with her. Now say she comes to me and decides that she will come back to me. I now have the POWER to be with her again. However, unless I say yes and choose to USE that power, the WANT doesn’t prove that the event happens. Maybe I don’t use the power because I know we will just break up again. Understand?
He says if God is all powerful and gets whatever he wants then a mere human should not influence what God wants. I guess if you read the link you will see I have gone through this.
Also, he has a MAJOR problem because he is essentially denying the Bible, which Calvinists believe in. The Bible DOES say both that God wants all people to be saved, in quite a few places. It also says He has the power, authority, and inclination to do that (the fact that Jesus came to Earth proves His inclination). This makes your second paragraph of his arguements irrelevant. In fact, it should send off some alarms in his brain that his position denies the two ideas that we just mentioned that are CLEARLY in the BIBLE.
Any good Calvinist won’t listen to you on this, but it basically comes down to this: Do you believe God creates people for the purpose of going to Hell?
There are a million good (mostly Protestant, so be careful, but they’re good in some matters) sites out there to refute Calvanism.
That has been my line of thought the whole time, I dont believe that God creates someone to turn around and toss them in the fire.