[quote=LydiaW] the doctrine of “Immaculate Conception of Mary.” Catholicism teaches today that Mary is the mother of God.
He’s goofy and look what he doesn’t know!
The three “pillars of the reformation”, Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli, all believed that Mary was the mother of God.
Mother of God:
Martin Luther: “In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such good things were given her that no one can grasp them… Not only was Mary the mother of Him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of Him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God.” (The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, Vol. 7, page 572)
John Calvin: “It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of His Son, granted her the highest honor…Elizabeth calls Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.” (Calvini Opera, Corpus reformatorum, Braunschweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, Vol. 45, page 348 and 335.)
Ulrich Zwingli: “It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God.” ( Zwingli Opera, Corpus reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, in Evang. Luc., Op. Comp., Vol.
6, I, page 639.)
Catholicism claims Mary is full of grace, therefore free of original sin and kept from all actual sin. The Pope’s encyclical agreed
The Catholic Church doesn’t just say that Mary is full of grace. That’s straight from the Word of God isn’t it? The problem is that the post reformation religions have no clue what all that entails. The problem is not the Catholic Church…it’s their understanding.
My own personal feeling
on the subject is that the Mary of biblical theology is quite different from the Mary of evolutionary Catholic dogma. So in what way does he figure that his personal feeling is infallibly correct? Ask him if he realizes that the Trinity is also an evolutionary Catholic doctrine?
The Mary of biblical theology is a simple Jewish maiden, selected by God. The fact that she identifies God as “Savior” indicates the that she’s a sinner, The fact that Mary died is proof that she was a sinner because the “wages of sin is death,”
I think that many people fail to recognize the really awesome power of Jesus’ sacrifice.
What does St. John call him in Revelation13:8? “And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.” (Emphasis mine)
So if that sacrifice was a done deal even then, then we can begin to understand how Old Testament saints were saved by it…and even more wonderful is how that same saving sacrifice could (and was!) applied to the Blessed Virgin to purify the Ark of the New Covenant within which would be carried the Son of the Most High God. We must never forget that the sacrifice of the cross flows in both directions in time in ways that only God could have planned.
Mary died, was resurrected, and assumed into Heaven, according to the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary.
These articles should give you some good info to help you counter his assertions.
He also said that he is very protestant Baptist, and wants to debate
Here’s the good answer for this guy on this.
I am a new convert, but I can direct you where to look for people who will be happy to answer you. :whistle: I wonder where that would be?
Tell him that you are not interested in debates and again refer him here to us and to the CA mainpage Library. One thing that many people seem to forget is that we are under no obligation to debate anyone at any time. Certainly we want to defend the faith, but there really are no points for going up against a mismatch with some dude who apparently has made a study of anti-Catholic arguments in order to rattle the faith of people like you. Just tell him that you have some new found friends (here) who will be quite happy to discuss and debate with him. Then by all means stop by to check on the discussion so that you can learn how to answer him.
If you’re not comfortable with talking to him then just blow him off and enjoy your faith. You are under no obligation to do this kind of thing until you feel that you are comfortable with it, and by all means use this as an opportunity to learn these aspects of your faith. We’ll be happy to help any way we can.
If you need to please feel free to PM me with anything at all.