Help me explain this to a friend please

My friend showed me this article as one of the main reasons he disagrees with Catholicism. I’m not sure how to defend the catholic teaching on this so I would like some advice.

carm.org/council-trent-canons-justification

There is not much we can do to help people who believe that they can prove anything by using a few out of context quotations from the Bible from a limited part of the Bible. Sometimes I think that certain Protestants think that the Bible consists of Paul’s letter to the Romans and the parts of John and Revelations they like.

The best you can do is encourage the person to actually read, without prejudice the Gospels and ALL of the letters of Paul, including Paul’s letter to the Corinthians. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians is particularly contradictory to Protestant’s beliefs, but so is the majority of the
Gospels.

Faith plays an important role, but it does not play an exclusive role.

I agree with Tony. You can play dueling verses, but it doesn’t generally change their mind. Is your friend interested in a true understanding of our view? If a person is truly open then there my be a way to discuss it.

I recommend this section on justification from the CCC:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6Y.HTM
It is not “different”, but it is a far more current presentation of our beliefs.

CCC 1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

In reading the article in the OP, it’s clear that the author didn’t understand the teachings he was trying to refute. The Scriptures he used to “counter” the teachings, do no such thing (some aren’t even referring to the same thing)… and a few of the verses actually directly support the teaching. :shrug:

So scripture contradicts scripture? only in the site called Carm…:smiley:

Look for the one on Salvation and Justification…this explains the catholic teaching and contrasts the protestant teaching…chnetwork.org/resources/coming-home-journals/

What part are you uncomfortable defending?

**Re: that article, Here is a direct response for your friend **Justification Sola Fide

As for Carm and all those who disagree with the Catholic Church:

I would respond, lots of people disagree(d) with the Catholic Church on all kinds of teachings. What’s new? They’ve done that from the 1st century. And if the grievance was on defined matters of faith or morals, those people have also been condemned from the 1st century. Fast forward 1500 years, Luther was given a chance to answer HIS errors [/FONT]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10exdom.htm , and he refused. So Pope Leo X excommunicated him. [/FONT]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10decet.htm Luther even admits adding alone to faith when scripture didn’t have alone. iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-translate.txt And what was his reasoning for adding alone? "if your Papist wishes to make a great fuss about the word “alone” (sola), say this to him: “Dr.Martin Luther will have it so”

That’s from the Father of Protestantism. The father of Christian division on steroids.

Luther joined ranks with The Great Heresies and heretics of all time and those who followed. Carm and all other protestants read 1 Tim 3:15 and presume THEY are the pillar and foundation of truth. :rolleyes:. That title goes to the Catholic Church, alone. It’s the only Church Jesus established and gave all His promises to. There is to be perfect unity and no division from what Jesus establishes John 17:20-23 .The Catholic Church is the Church from the beginning. #[FONT=Arial]34 [/FONT]

Re: the issue you’re running into

[LIST]
*]Tit 3:10
“As for a man who is factious ( [FONT=Verdana]αρετικν[/FONT] ), after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.”
*]Be sure and open the links Romans 16:17-20 , , διχοστασίας dichostasia = division / dissension / factions /sedition. Whichever word one’s translation uses in those passages, the Greek word is the same in both Rom 16:17. And Gal 5:19… The consequences for one’s soul [Gal 5:21] is where the phrase comes from, “outside Catholic Church = shall not obtain the kingdom of God.”
[/FONT]
[/LIST]Catholics are required to give them answers. We have no guarantee they will agree.

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