Help! my uncle is trying to convert me.

i just need ideas or points to bring up:

Principle No. 1: God wants man to be free.
Gods way: In the beginning there was only one rule, “don’t eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” God intended man to be utterly and absolutely free but for this one simple rule. It didn’t work. By the time Jesus got here that one rule had expanded to become the books of the law. The purpose for all those rules, called The Law, was not because man needed it but to show us that we needed Jesus. “Well then why was the law given? It was given to show people how guilty they are. But this system of law was to last only until the coming of the child to whom God’s promise was made.” Gal 4:19 Jesus mission was to save us and by doing so, free us from all the rules and legalism of the Jewish religious system. When Jesus began his ministry he explained his mission by quoting Isaiah. "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He has anointed me to proclaim Good News to the poor; He has sent me to announce release to the prisoners of war and recovery of sight to the blind: to send away free those whom tyranny has crushed, Luke 4:18 Here he is talking about freedom from the system of law and the tyranny of sin.
John 8:32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."When talking about our freedom in Christ, Paul says, “I am free to do all things; but not all things are wise. I am free to do all things; but I will not let myself come under the power of any.” 1 Corinthians 6:12 Freedom was a central issue of Jesus ministry and the early church. Jesus sums up all the requirement of the law, how? ‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself and thereby fulfill all the law. (my paraphrase)‘ Mark 12:29, Matt 22:37-40 & Luke 10:25-28 He brought us back to one simple rule.

Principle No. 2: Man wants to control and finds comfort in being controlled.
Man’s way: Man establishes grand religious systems. He sets up hierarchies of authority so few people (those in power) can control, direct, and lead many. 1 Samuel 8 tells how Israel was not content to live under Gods spiritual leadership but wanted a King to govern them. In verses 10 -18 Samuel warns the people that a King will rule with an iron hand and treat them like slaves. Still they chose this rather than the freedom God offers. Vs 19 says, “But the people refused to listen to Samuel’s warning. ‘Even so, we still want a king.’ They said. ‘We want to be like the nations around us. Our king will govern us and lead us into battle.’”
These systems strongly discourage, even forbid, questioning those in leadership. They are designed to limit individual freedom and encourage compliance with the system and obedience to the rules. Threats of punishment (excommunication and ultimately Hell) keep the rebellious in line and promises of reward (Heaven) encourage obedience.
Take a good look at any of the established old religions; what jumps out at you is that they all have a similar system of rules, traditions and rituals. Traditions are basically just old rules that have been passed down over the ages that tell followers how to behave and what to do. There are two main points here; one is that if you are not a member of the religion your doomed and two, if you don’t follow the teachings or rules of those in authority you will suffer. Christianity has softened these points a little but I think they, to a large degree, still match the view of most denominations. Catholicism has a bunch of rules as well. They use to eat fish on Friday, what about Baptism, Communion, Confession, Last rights, and Mass, I suspect the rules for all these rituals are detailed and specific and if not followed your standing with God is in question.

Principle No. 3: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine
2 Tim 3:14 – 17
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
This speaks to your second point and is fundamental. If we can’t agree on an authoritative reference then we have no way of supporting or proving our points. What I think you are saying is that the Holy Catholic Church is your authoritative reference and that the Bible is secondary, only authoritative to the level that the church decrees; where I would say, Sola Scripture, the Bible stands on its own authority.
Practically, for the sake of our discussion I don’t think it matters since the fourth century church (and I suspect that church was very different from the catholic church of today) put their stamp of approval on the Bible. I am sure the church has no problem with agreeing with 2 Tim 3:14 – 17. The problem is only theoretical concerning to source of authority.

continued-

when i emailed him about our beliefs and dogmas never changing he wrote: But I think you will find this so called infallible church and its’ Popes has made innumerable mistakes over the last 1500 years. What comes to mind first are the crusades and the inquisition. I will look up the details once I get connected.

when i pointed out men (priests) can forgive sins- * I have to admit that I don’t fully understand this verse. It does seem to be the only one that suggests man can stand in Gods place and forgive sins. We don’t see any examples of the apostles forgiving sins in the New Testament. This seems like a weak foundation on which to base such an important doctrine.*

D) 1 Corinthians 11:27 “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.” how can you profane the Lord if communion is a symbol? The same way you profane the country by burning the flag.

On Last Rites - This verse doesn’t say the elders are forgiving the sick mans sins only that his sins will be forgiven. I think it is a safe assumption that the sick man is praying here as well. I am not sure what the sacrament of the sick is but I have seem many sick in the Protestant anointed with oil and prayed for and some healed.

then he sent me this:

Break Through to the Foundation!
Regardless of the “side-doctrines” of the Roman Catholic Church, or any other Christian denomination, the question for all of us is: “What does your personal relationship with Jesus Christ mean to you?” Whether we use the term “born-again,” “regenerated” or “saved,” the answer to that question must encompass these truths:

I Acknowledge - I’m a sinner needing a Savior.

I Turn - towards God and away from my old ways.

I Believe - that Jesus Christ is deity united with humanity. As the sinless Savior, He died to pay the penalty for my sin. He died for me, so that I could gain salvation, forgiveness of sin, and life everlasting.

I Receive - Jesus Christ into my heart and life as my Savior and Lord.

Focus on the Relationship, Not the Religion
The Roman Catholic Church is no different than many other denominations, where all too often the traditions and customs of men have been substituted for the simple truth of the Gospel. Many Roman Catholic leaders and laymen are doing good deeds for which they are to be commended, but many have not surrendered to a true relationship with their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. There is no doubt that many Roman Catholics are saved, but they are saved because of their personal relationship with God, and not because of any religion. The Christian faith declared in the Bible is one of trust in a relationship with a Person, rather than in a religion, institution or organization.

When we stand before God one day, He will not ask us whether we are Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran or Methodist. He will only ask us why He should allow us into His kingdom. How will you respond to that question? Will you tell Him what denomination you belonged to or that you attended church every Sunday? Will you try and tell Him you were a “good and moral person” who did works of charity? The biblical truth is that God doesn’t consider any of these responses to be worthy of admission into heaven. Our prayer is that we’ll all be able to respond to Him with an answer that He will honor: “I have confessed Christ before man and You Lord, and it is by grace alone that I come into your heaven.”

“See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ” (Colossians 1:16).

Wow,there is a lot to address in your post.First the Priest dos’nt forgive your sins,Christ does through the Priest.The Sacrament of Confession is part of the Sacrament of healing.Jesus,being the Great Physisian,heals the deep wounds that sin creates.Read the Great Commission(Go unto all the world etc>).Our Protestant brothers and sisters do not understand the doctrine of infalibility.The Church,the Pope is only infallible in its teachings of Dogma.Doctrine or Dogma has not,will not, nor can ever be changed.Has the Church made mistakes?Yes.But not in Doctrine or morals.The teachings have remained constant for 2000 yrs.May our Lord Bless you.

#2.All of the Sacraments,Teachings.Liturgy,Sacred Scripture,Sacred Traditons(not man made traditions),Prayers we pray are to help us have a vital,intense,personal Relationship with our Lord and Saviour,Jesus Christ.

It is popular these days to condem Religion.Sacred Scripture does teach the meaning of Pure and True Religion.It also teaches the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.Its popular nowdays to say"it dos’nt matter what church or denomination your a part of.Contrary to the name of some church’s name,The Catholic Church has the Full Gospel.Our Church is the Church Founded by Christ.The Historical evidence cannot be denied unless one has the "Don’t cofuse me with the Facts"syndrom.

When we stand before God one day, He will not ask us whether we are Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran or Methodist. He will only ask us why He should allow us into His kingdom. How will you respond to that question? Will you tell Him what denomination you belonged to or that you attended church every Sunday? Will you try and tell Him you were a “good and moral person” who did works of charity? The biblical truth is that God doesn’t consider any of these responses to be worthy of admission into heaven. Our prayer is that we’ll all be able to respond to Him with an answer that He will honor: “I have confessed Christ before man and You Lord, and it is by grace alone that I come into your heaven.”

Your uncle is mistaken. He is not taking the entire bible in context.

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:10).

“For [God] will reward every man according to his works: to those who by perseverance in working good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. There will be . . . glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality” (Rom. 2:6–11; cf. Gal. 6:6–10).

Well, we Catholics have an answer for everything, so all you have to do is look I suppose :wink:

I would recommend bringing up why he considers the Bible as inspired when it was compiled by a Church that is supposedly “no different than [any] other denomination.” How can he claim that the Bible is the Word of God when the authority that declared it so, the Catholic Church, is an institution he expressly rejects?

On the subjects of the Crusades and Inquisition, inform him that only the teachings specifically regarding faith and morals are infallible. Doctrines have developed over time, but they have never been changed by the Church. Additionally, inform him that the punishments delivered by the Inquisition were actually more humane and merciful than those of the governmental authorities of the time.

What your uncle is preaching is essentially relativism. He thinks it doesn’t matter whether one’s “Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran or Methodist,” but it does. It really does. There is such a thing as objective truth, and the only Church that has the fullness of truth is the one founded by Christ himself two millennia ago.

You might want to borrow some points from these articles: catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp
catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp

I wish I knew what Bible he is using… but that’s off the point.

Here are a couple of things to address. I’ve got them out of order.

When we stand before God one day, He will not ask us whether we are Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran or Methodist. He will only ask us why He should allow us into His kingdom.

Ask him for Bible verses to prove that Jesus will ask us this. All I’ve seen is that Jesus will judge us. (And by our deeds, not our faith! Mt 16:27, for instance.)

As for this:

Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

“Profitable” does not mean “only.” (1 Cor 11:2, 2 Th 2:15)

He also has the usual misunderstandings about infallibility. I find it helps to tell people like this that there have only been two or three infallible teachings by Popes in the past 150 years, and that the Pope is a sinner, too, and goes to confession like the rest of us.

The complete Church is not infallible, because it is made up of human sinners. Her dogma is infallible.

There are several levels of belief about what the Church teaches, ranging from things that must be believed (dogma), to things that are held to be the opinion of theologians (ranging from a good thing to be believed to something that is not in conflict with dogma).

HTH. I’ve gotta go; I’ll try to address more of his stuff later.

God bless you,

Ruthie

thanks for all the help so far.
my main problem i am having is with his beef that the Church uses mind control to kep members in line, threatening them with hell or whatever.

If the Church uses “mind control,” it doesn’t work. :wink: For example, the majority of Catholics in America are socially liberal and pro-abortion, whereas the Church has been adamantly pro-life for two millennia.

I’ve never seen the Church itself threaten people with hell; rather, some very concerned members may be a bit too quick to judge others. The Church focuses on Christ’s love and mercy, and we serve a loving God with humility and a recognition of our own personal weaknesses. Remember, the church is essentially a hospital for sinners.

Don’t think anything about your uncle, you can use bible. It gives you more power with fight anybody.

Hell is real. We should all be afraid of it. The Church doesn’t brainwash us; she offers us the choice between Heaven and Hell.

Here are a few verses for him.

Mat 3:12 

Mat 5:29-30
Mat 7:13-14
Mat 10:28
Mat 13:49-50
Mat 18:8-9
Mat 18:34-35
Mat 22:13
Mat 25:28-30
Mat 25:41
Mat 25:46

He will probably respond with that old canard, “Once saved, always saved.” In that case, refer to this letter by Karl Keating.

God bless you,

Ruthie

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