Help on encounter friend leaving for copticism?


#1

A friend of mine, who doesn't have a family background of any religion and being enthusiastic of having one, baptized and entering into a eastern catholic monastery in Brazil. While he was there, he witnessed numerous (according to his record, I for myself never been there) both liturgical abuses and over-liberal theology among clergy and religious, as well as the grievous influence from "pagan religion", and on and on.

He researched much on Catholicism, Eastern and Orient Orthodoxy. The good thing is though this he learned a lot and, thanks to my friends who are experts on theology, by now he won't reject any Catholic doctrine. Still, what he's seen (stated above) and, I guess primarily, the appearance of liturgy are seriously make him to go to Coptic church.

Because it's not a intellectual problem, my friends and I are kind of out of ideas except doing a novena of Mary help of Christians. Is there any other thing might help?


#2

Aren’t Coptics Catholics? If he has found a particulary liberal monastery that is one thing, but I wouldn’t be too worried as long as he is able to sort out the truth from the bs.


#3

Some Copts are Eastern Rite Catholics while others are Oriental Orthodox, we really can’t tell from this post.


#4

The vast majority of Copts are Oriental Orthodox. The Coptic Catholic Church is tiny (about 164,000 worldwide), and I have not heard of any organized presence of Coptic Catholics in Brazil. There is a Coptic Church in Sao Paulo; there may be more by now. Chances are your friend has encountered a Coptic Orthodox Church.


#5

[quote="SteveVH, post:2, topic:297503"]
Aren't Coptics Catholics? If he has found a particulary liberal monastery that is one thing, but I wouldn't be too worried as long as he is able to sort out the truth from the bs.

[/quote]

Well, he is more that just being within a monastery, he 's been travelled around few south american countries, that's why he conclude that there's such chaos among those people who said to consecrated their life and didn't do very well. And I do agree with you that he could figure out where lies the true salvation easier when he‘s older, if he really had to take a hard way....


#6

[quote="dzheremi, post:4, topic:297503"]
The vast majority of Copts are Oriental Orthodox. The Coptic Catholic Church is tiny (about 164,000 worldwide), and I have not heard of any organized presence of Coptic Catholics in Brazil. There is a Coptic Church in Sao Paulo; there may be more by now. Chances are your friend has encountered a Coptic Orthodox Church.

[/quote]

True, here is the matter of Coptic Orthodox, the one which has their own pope. Apology for not mentioning it clearly.

But be that as it may, he is further planning go to Egypt. Young men really got zeal...


#7

Accept his decision and wish him well and keep in touch if possible.


#8

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:7, topic:297503"]
Accept his decision and wish him well and keep in touch if possible.

[/quote]

It isn't like your friend is becoming a heretic or joining a cult. I've had some long conversations and theological debates with an online Coptic Orthodox friend, and while his way would not suit me, he is one of the soundest Christians I know.

I see no reason not to do as Julia Mae says. :thumbsup:


#9

The Coptic “Orthodox” are heretical.


#10

Let God lead him where he wants him if its coptic or orthodox :D


#11

So we’ve got one of those OC.net-type jokers here, have we…? :stuck_out_tongue: I swear, if I had a dime for every person who made this joke…no, nevermind. Scratch that. It’s not worth a whole dime.


#12

I was unaware that the RCC now considers St. Cyril of Alexandria and his Orthodox Christology heretical. Best strike him from your list of Doctors of the Church, then.


#13

[quote="dzheremi, post:12, topic:297503"]
I was unaware that the RCC now considers St. Cyril of Alexandria and his Orthodox Christology heretical. Best strike him from your list of Doctors of the Church, then.

[/quote]

Of course they are heretical. Have the accepted the universal, ordinary jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome? If not, let them be anathema!


#14

[quote="Yitong, post:1, topic:297503"]
Because it's not a intellectual problem, my friends and I are kind of out of ideas except doing a novena of Mary help of Christians. Is there any other thing might help?

[/quote]

Define what you mean by "help". Your friend is going to a Church the Catholic Church herself teaches to have valid Sacraments and a valid priesthood. The Catholic Church declares the Oriental Orthodox to be true Apostolic Churches in possession of the deposit of faith and preserving it faithfully.

So what kind of "help" are you looking for in terms of your friend and his desire to join the Coptic Orthodox Church?


#15

Specifics, please, and I hope it’s not the tired, old accusation that they are monophysites, because they do not hold to the christology of Euytches that was condemned at Chalcedon, and they never have.


#16
  1. They’re miaphysites.

2.They deny the dogma of Papal Infallibility.


#17

[quote="devoutchristian, post:16, topic:297503"]
1. They're miaphysites.

[/quote]

Again, unless you are saying that St. Cyril of Alexandria, who is a Doctor of the Church according to the CATHOLIC CHURCH, is a heretic (in which case, you need to do a LOT more reading on what your own church believes), you must accept miaphysitism as Orthodox. This does not necessarily mean that the Copts are Orthodox (though I obviously believe they are, and couldn't care less what a Roman Catholic has to say about it; I'm talking about being internally consistent in following your own church's belief), but they certainly can't be heretics on account of their miaphysite Christology.

2.They deny the dogma of Papal Infallibility.

So does everybody else outside of the Roman communion, so that's neither here nor there... :shrug:


#18

So do I. And the Catholic Church didn’t officially believe it until 1870. :stuck_out_tongue:


#19

St.Cyril didn’t reject the Council of Chalcedon.

I was responding to a Catholic.


#20

That’s specious reasoning. He died seven years before it even began.

By that logic, he didn’t reject the infallibility of the Roman Pope, so he must’ve been a Roman Catholic. Oh, wait, but he didn’t reject “Sola Scriptura”, either, so I guess he was really a Lutheran. But then, he didn’t reject baptism for the dead, so maybe he’s actually a Mormon. But, on the other hand…


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