Help with a Traditionalist arguement

Please help with the following citation:

““We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.”[3]” - ACERBO NIMIS

If faith/salvation is a matter of knowledge then much of the mentally handicapped and all of the babies of the world are destined to eternal damnation. The most holy among us must also be the most learned. Even the demons of hell believe, and thus have knowlege as well. We are not bound by the law if we don’t know it. God is just and as such, cannot punish those who are innocent of having denied His Truth… etc… <= is that what you’re looking for? Please excuse me if I am misunderstanding what you are looking for…

The only answer needed is the context. Pope Pius X was writing about Christians who allow themselves to be ignorant of these things, and was quoting Pope Benedict XIV to back up his point. The entire relevant passage is this:

  1. It is a common complaint, unfortunately too well founded, that there are large numbers of Christians in our own time who are entirely ignorant of those truths necessary for salvation. And when we mention Christians, We refer not only to the masses or to those in the lower walks of life – for these find some excuse for their ignorance in the fact that the demands of their harsh employers hardly leave them time to take care of themselves or of their dear ones – but We refer to those especially who do not lack culture or talents and, indeed, are possessed of abundant knowledge regarding things of the world but live rashly and imprudently with regard to religion. It is hard to find words to describe how profound is the darkness in which they are engulfed and, what is most deplorable of all, how tranquilly they repose there. They rarely give thought to God, the Supreme Author and Ruler of all things, or to the teachings of the faith of Christ. They know nothing of the Incarnation of the Word of God, nothing of the perfect restoration of the human race which He accomplished. Grace, the greatest of the helps for attaining eternal things, the Holy Sacrifice and the Sacraments by which we obtain grace, are entirely unknown to them. They have no conception of the malice and baseness of sin; hence they show no anxiety to avoid sin or to renounce it. And so they arrive at life’s end in such a condition that, lest all hope of salvation be lost, the priest is obliged to give in the last few moments of life a summary teaching of religion, a time which should be devoted to stimulating the soul to greater love for God. And even this as too often happens only when the dying man is not so sinfully ignorant as to look upon the ministration of the priest as useless, and then calmly faces the fearful passage to eternity without making his peace with God. And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: “We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.”[3]

This is not only entirely consistant with the whole of Apostolic Tradition, it’s also highly emphasized in the post-Vatican II era. We are responsible for forming our consciences in accord with the Truth, and simple ignorance does not suffice to excuse us from the necessity of this act. This is spoken of especially in the CCC.

As for the original context of the quote, I honestly don’t know. I don’t know the actual name of the document by Pope Benedix XIV, and I’m not sure if it is available in English in any case. Regardless, the context of Pope Pius X’s Encyclial likely gives pretty strong indication of what Pope Benedict XIV was speaking about.

Peace and God bless!

[quote=Ghosty]The only answer needed is the context. Pope Pius X was writing about Christians who allow themselves to be ignorant of these things, and was quoting Pope Benedict XIV to back up his point. The entire relevant passage is this:

This is not only entirely consistant with the whole of Apostolic Tradition, it’s also highly emphasized in the post-Vatican II era. We are responsible for forming our consciences in accord with the Truth, and simple ignorance does not suffice to excuse us from the necessity of this act. This is spoken of especially in the CCC.

As for the original context of the quote, I honestly don’t know. I don’t know the actual name of the document by Pope Benedix XIV, and I’m not sure if it is available in English in any case. Regardless, the context of Pope Pius X’s Encyclial likely gives pretty strong indication of what Pope Benedict XIV was speaking about.

Peace and God bless!
[/quote]

That was my interpretation of it as well. Does anybody happen to know what the original document of Benedict was? I’d like to read it if it is at all possible, though I know that it may not be :crying:

[quote=Lazerlike42]That was my interpretation of it as well. Does anybody happen to know what the original document of Benedict was? I’d like to read it if it is at all possible, though I know that it may not be :crying:
[/quote]

Footnote [3] in the Encyclical ACERBO NIMIS is Instit., 27:18.

[quote=Matt16_18]Footnote [3] in the Encyclical ACERBO NIMIS is Instit., 27:18.
[/quote]

Right, but there are no documents I can find that begin with that title, and I have a website that lists all Papal Encyclicals.

Peace and God bless!

[quote=Ghosty]Right, but there are no documents I can find that begin with that title, and I have a website that lists all Papal Encyclicals.
[/quote]

My guess is that Instit., 27:18 refers to the Institutiones Ecclesiasticæ.Pope Benedict XIV

Great as a man, a scholar, an administrator, and a priest, Benedict’s claim to immortality rests principally on his admirable ecclesiastical writings. The most important of them, besides those already mentioned, are: “Institutiones Ecclesiasticæ”, written in Italian, but translated into Latin by P. Ildephonsus a S. Carolo; it is a collection of 107 documents, principally pastoral letters, letters to bishops and others, independent treatises, instructions, etc., all of which are really scientific dissertations on subjects connected with church law or the care of souls; the classical work “De Synodo Dioecesanâ”, published after his elevation to the papacy, an adaptation to diocesan administration of the general ecclesiastical law; this book is called by Schulte, because of its influence, one of the most important, if not the most important, modern work in canon law; “Casus Conscientiæ de mandato Prosp. Lambertini Archiep. Bonon propositi et resoluti”, valuable for the lawyer as well as the confessor; “Bullarum Benedicti XIV”, which contains the legislation of his pontificate, many of its documents being scientific treatises.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume II
Copyright © 1907 by Robert Appleton Company

[quote=Matt16_18]My guess is that Instit., 27:18 refers to the Institutiones Ecclesiasticæ.Pope Benedict XIV

Great as a man, a scholar, an administrator, and a priest, Benedict’s claim to immortality rests principally on his admirable ecclesiastical writings. The most important of them, besides those already mentioned, are: “Institutiones Ecclesiasticæ”, written in Italian, but translated into Latin by P. Ildephonsus a S. Carolo; it is a collection of 107 documents, principally pastoral letters, letters to bishops and others, independent treatises, instructions, etc., all of which are really scientific dissertations on subjects connected with church law or the care of souls; the classical work “De Synodo Dioecesanâ”, published after his elevation to the papacy, an adaptation to diocesan administration of the general ecclesiastical law; this book is called by Schulte, because of its influence, one of the most important, if not the most important, modern work in canon law; “Casus Conscientiæ de mandato Prosp. Lambertini Archiep. Bonon propositi et resoluti”, valuable for the lawyer as well as the confessor; “Bullarum Benedicti XIV”, which contains the legislation of his pontificate, many of its documents being scientific treatises.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume II
Copyright © 1907 by Robert Appleton Company

[/quote]

I bet you’re right, and I bet we won’t be finding copies of that collection online and in English :stuck_out_tongue:

In this case, however, I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Pope Pius X that he wasn’t taking things completely out of context. Even if he were, those documents don’t sound like they’d reach anything near the level of infallility, and many of them likely aren’t even technically “by Papal authority”, but by “Prospero Lorenzo Lambertini, who also happens to be the Pope”, not unlike John Paul II’s numerous private and pastoral writings during his Pontificate.

Peace and God bless!

[quote=Ghosty]I bet you’re right, and I bet we won’t be finding copies of that collection online and in English
[/quote]

Try a Google search on “Institutiones Ecclesiasticæ”.

… I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Pope Pius X that he wasn’t taking things completely out of context …

LOL.

If the Feeneyites and the SSPXers aren’t willing to Pope Pius X the benefit of the doubt, who would they be willing to give the benefit of the doubt?:stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know about the SSPXers, but Feeneyites don’t give the benefit of the doubt to anything that doesn’t lend creedence to their heretical views :stuck_out_tongue:

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