hello i am roman catholic, my husband however is jehovahs witness…i kno big mistake but i love him… and we now have a daughter together… my problem is an everyday problem, we are always arguing about something…i celebrate holidays and he doesnt …and with xmas coming zround the corner we are already arguing…what can i do, he can show me things in the bible about how xmas is false and celebrating birthdays and other holidays is false. but i can nnot show him anything to prove that is is right and okay, i feel trapped. i am in college and he finanly supports me so i need him…but i feel like if i was working already that i wouldnt be in this posistion …i would be able to set up a christmas tree and celebrate my daughters birthday.without having to feel like im doing something wrong or he may divorce me.this is a horrible thing to say but imagine how i feel… like a prisoner in my own home. i cant do what i want to do… if anybody has any ideas or bible scriptures so that i can prove to him that my religion is right. i need helpppp i am constantly upset over this.
What are the scriptures that he quotes to you? I can’t think of any that speak of such a subject. I also don’t know much about Jehovah’s witness’ theology, but I might put together a pretty good argument.
If you know which scriptures he is quoting, then you can make him refute himself. I learned a few years ago that if you don’t read the Bible the way Catholics do, it WILL contradict itself. That is why I joined the Catholic Church.
You also might go to ask an apologist. They usually know what they are talking about.
i cant remeber the exact scriptures but ones that say jesus died on a pole and not a cross, umm scriptures such that we pray to mary and saints and that these are false idols and god is a jealous god, he also wont let me babtize my daughter because he says its worng to baptize a baby because jesus is the perfect example and he was babptized at 33
You have to remember that the Jehovah’s Witness organization rewrote their own version of the Bible - The New World Translation. No other entity in the world uses this version of the Bible. It’s wrought with errors. So, you need to compare what he is showing you in his “Bible” to what’s in every other version, be that the NAB, D-R, RSV, NIV, KJV or whatever. Jesus told the disciples to go and baptize ALL NATIONS. He didn’t make an age stipulation. Entire families were being baptised, you can see this right in the Bible, those families would have included children (even babies) and slaves (servants) as well.
I’m sorry I don’t have any more information right now. My main source of knowledge on the JW’s is from a book called Strangers At Your Door, but I don’t have that with me right now. I will try to get more info over the weekend and get back with you on Monday.
I’ll get you some internet resources by this afternoon.
My First Question to you is what Translation of the Bible is he using???
This is why???
[quote=Stumpers for the Jehovah’s Witnesses from catholic.com]The New World Translation (NWT), the JWs’ own Bible version, was created between 1950-61 in several parts, beginning with New Testament (NT). The translation was made by an “anonymous” committee, which transliterated and altered passages that were problematic for earlier JWs. Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, and Milton Henschel were later identified as the men that created the text, which is used by no other sect. Franz studied non-biblical Greek for two years, and taught himself Hebrew. The rest had no formal training in any biblical language. The text of the NWT is more of a transliteration to fit theological presumptions than it is a true translation. This can be seen in key verses that the WTS changed in order to fit its doctrines.
[quote=The book Catholicism for Dummies page 98]The New Testament affirms the entire households were baptized, which meant the parents and children as well. So infant Baptisms have occurred from the very beginning.
**Acts 16:31-34 **31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole family. (NIV)
**Acts 16:13-15 **13 On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. 14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. 15 When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us. (NIV)
Both of these passage talk about WHOLE HOUSEHOLD or WHOLE FAMILIES being baptized. Children and Infants are part of a family. Therefore children and infants very well could have been in these families and they would have been baptized.
Finally this might help:
[quote=The book Catholicism for Dummies page 98]It’s just like the United States giving citizenship to babies when they are born. All the rights and privileges of citizenship are bestowed on newborn infants even though they’re too young to know or realize it. Similarly baptized infants don’t know or realize that they’re Catholic Christians any more then they know that they’re Americans, but the infants have an identity and share in the rights and privileges that only members can enjoy. And just as U.S. citizens can renounce their citizenship after they turn 18. Catholic Christians can renounce their religion when they become adults. When they’re old enough, they can consciously choose to continue or reject their religion. No father and mother would delay naming their son until he was old enough to decide for himself what name we wanted, nor would they allow their daughter to renounce citizenship until she was old enough to vote and choose for herself what nation she would belong to. Likewise, Catholic parents baptize their children, so they receive a faith, a name and a nationality—without their consent but for their own good nonetheless.
I highly suggest you get the book “Catholicism for Dummies” it would be a help to you. I’m sure you would be able to pick up a copy from a Library.
My dear friend, you have a serious mess on your hands.
All the attacks that he makes on the holidays and birthdays are based on things pulled out of the context of the Word of God and twisted by the JWs. He’s dead wrong about the holidays and birthdays and even more wrong about the charge of idolatry.
Effective immediately, refuse to hear anything out of that New World Translation Bible of theirs. It is one of the most corrupted versions you can find anywhere.
See the links to refutations of JW teachings HERE. You’ll quickly gain some info that will show just how messed up that cult is.
I’m sorry but you can almost expect to be divorced if you stand up for your faith. That’s just the way they do things. If your family is still friendly with you I suggest that you renew your ties with them ASAP. You may need them.
You need good Catholic teaching and you need it NOW.
a) The Catholic Home Study Service offers FREE Catholic courses that just can’t be beat. I suggest that you begin with either “We Believe…” or “Christ’s Mother and Ours” as both will equip you to answer the lies he’s being fed about our most holy faith.
b) The Bible Christian Society is a Catholic ministry that offers FREE CDs and MP3 downloads of Catholic Bible studies to help answer all these kinds of things. By all means take advantage of it.
- Come in and post here often, with any and all questions that you may have and you can count on me and the rest of the Catholics here (Some of whom are converts from JW) to help in any way that we can. Feel free to PM me if I can help with anything. (Your message will trigger an e-mail that I will get and come check on.)
BTW, here’s the answer to that craziness about crucifxion.
Cross or Torture Stake? You can always print that up fold it til it’s all sharp corners and lovingly “share” it with your poor husband. (Sorry. Irish :irish1: humor sneakin’ through.)
Lets look at their proof text
Jeremiah 10 (Contemporary English Version)
The LORD Talks about Idols
1The LORD said:
Listen to me,
you people of Israel.
2Don’t follow the customs
of those nations
who become frightened
when they see
happen in the sky.
3Their religion is worthless!
** They chop down a tree,
carve the wood into an idol,
4 cover it with silver and gold,
and then nail it down
so it won’t fall over. ** 5 An idol is no better
than a scarecrow.
It can’t speak,
and it has to be carried,
because it can’t walk.
Why worship an idol
that can’t help or harm you?
In verse 3-4 the Hebrew literally is saying that, the pagans cut down a tree ( it does not say pine tree ), a craftsman fashions it into an idol, it is OVERLAID with precious metals. This is not a Christmas tree, it is an idol.
Now lets look at the King James translation,
Jeremiah 10:3-4 (King James Version)
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
If you don’t read this text carefully, you can see a Christmas tree in the passage. But, “the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe” gives it away as being an idol being made.
The verses that the concerned readers repeatedly cite are 10:2-4: “Do not learn the ways of the nations . . . For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.” “Aha!” these readers say. “Jeremiah is talking about the Christmas tree!” But closer examination reveals that he certainly is not!
First, there is the immediate context of this passage. The very next verse, 10:5, goes on to say, “Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.” **This passage and the passages that follow make it crystal clear that the “decorated tree” that Jeremiah was talking about in 10:3-4, was a tree that was cut down and made into an idol, a very common custom in the ancient world. **10:8-10 also confirms this, where the wooden idols are contrasted with the LORD, who is the true and living God. Keil and Delitsch, the well-respected Old Testament commentary, confirms this interpretation that the trees in question were idols that were then worshiped (C. F. Keil and F. Delitsch, Commentary on the Old Testament, “Jeremiah, Lamentations,” vol 8 (Grand Rapids: William B. Eeerdmans Publishing Company, 1980), 196-199).
Second, when we search the rest of the Old Testament, we find …
Oh, and I’d get that child of yours baptised ASAP. I don’t care what your husband says. Did you not go through Pre-Cana before you were married? Does he not know that you have to promise to do everything in your power to make sure the children are brought up Catholic? Meet with your priest to find out when is the earliest date you could possibly have her baptised.
I think you must simply make religious differences off-limits for discussion in your home. If you really love him you will do this, and more importantly, if he really loves you he will do this. Just as you married him knowing that he was JW, so he married you knowing that you were Catholic.
according to strong’s concordance the word for “deck” means
Hebrew for 03302
TWOT Reference Root Word
TWOT - 890 a primitive root
Part of Speech
Outline of Biblical Usage
- to be bright, be beautiful, be handsome, be fair
a) (Qal) to be beautiful
b) (Piel) to beautify
c) (Pual) to be beautiful
d) (Hithpael) to beautify oneself
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 8
AV - fair 4, beautiful 2, deck it 1, fairer 1; 8
deck simply means to make beautiful.
Wood was overlaid with sheets of metal that were hammered out as flat as humanly possible.
the censers of the men who sinned at the cost of their lives. Hammer the censers into sheets to overlay the altar, for they were presented before the LORD and have become holy. Let them be a sign to the Israelites."
As for an idol, a craftsman casts it, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold and fashions silver chains for it.
The other then that ties in with this is Confirmation.
[quote=The book: Catholicism for Dummies page 109]Soon after the kids are born and get fed, they start to grow. Growth is a vital to human life as nourishment. The body and mind must grow to stay alive. Catholics believe that the soul also needs to grow in the life of grace. Just as the human body must grow through childhood, adolescence, and then adulthood, the human soul needs to grow into maturity. Catholics believe that Confirmation is the supernatural equivalent of the growth process on the natural level. It builds on what was begun in Baptism and what was nourished in Holy Eucharist. It completes the process of initiation into the Christian community, and it matures the soul for the work ahead.
This Sacrament of Initiation (Confirmation) means that they become young adults in the Catholic Faith. Confirmation is the supernatural equivalent of the growth process on the natural level. Along with the Holy Eucharist, it builds on what was begun at Baptism and nourished by the Holy Eucharist. It completes the process of initiation into the Christian community, and it matures the soul for the work ahead. During an infant Baptism, parents and godparents make the promise to renounce Satan and believe in God and the Church on behalf of the child. At Confirmation, before the bishop, the young adult renews those same promises, this time in her own words.
Hi Mike, most likely her husband is getting pressured by fellow Jws. Her behavior in their eyes is looked upon as being his failure as the spiritual head of the family.
She needs to do some extensive research on her Christian fatih.
These look like great resources. I’ve already signed up for the first course from the CHSS. Thanks for posting that.
I agree she needs to understand the Catholic faith well enough to not be swayed, but IMO she also needs to put an end to what sounds like constant badgering on his part. He had no right to marry her as a Catholic and then start harassing her about her “false” faith. Does he want to be married to his wife, the woman he picked over all others, or does he want to be “right” at the possible cost of his family?
I would look at the verse in Isaiah where God clearly states he created the world alone. Off hand I don’t remember the verse, but it clearly says that God created the Universe alone. JWs belive Jesus was a partner in creation. If Jesus is not God, then that contradicts Isaiah. John 1:1 clearly states that the Father created everything through Jesus. There is also a verse, I think in Deuteronomy 32, that states that there are no gods together with God. This contradicts Jw teaching because they see Jesus as a “god” not The God. Also, look at Ephesians 4:8-9. This verse applies a Psalm about God to Jesus. So does Hebrews 1:10-12 (Psalm 102). I don’t remember the verses in the repective Pslams off hand, but maybe you can get it from the cross reference notes in your Bible. I have a New World Translation and I use it when I discuss with Jws. Also see Revelation 1:17 where Jesus identifies himself to John by using one of God’s titles (see Isaiah 44?). I might have gotten the verse in Isaiah wrong, but in it God says “I am the first and the last, besides me there is no God.” See also the verses in Revelation where God identifies Himself as the Alpha and the Omega and so does Jesus (Revelation 1:8 compared to Revelation 22:13). I wish I could be more specific with my verses, but they work because I have stumped a couple of Jws with them and got a girl studying to become a JW to reconsider and to go to Mass with me. She was baptized Catholic, but she didn’t remember the last time she went to church.
Especially, this book: Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses by Jason Evert see book summary here.
Jeff Schwehm is a convert to Catholicism from the Jehovah’s witnesses. He participates here at CAF quite a bit. I think I’ll see if I can PM him to get him on this thread to advise you.
In the meantime go to his website catholicxjw.com
Here are some articles about what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe.
Read this one.
Also, check out some of these conversion stories
I agree Mike, she needs to put a stop to it. But, I think it is being fueled outside the home.
In the cultic practices, humans fulfilled their destiny: to take care of the gods’ material needs. They therefore provided the gods with houses (the temples) that were richly supplied with lands, which people cultivated for them. In the temple the god was present in–but not bounded by–a statue made of precious wood overlaid with gold. For this statue the temple kitchen staff prepared daily meals from produce grown or raised on the temple’s fields, in its orchards, in its sheepfolds, cattle pens, and game preserves, brought in by its fishermen, or delivered by farmers owing it as a temple tax. The statue was also clad in costly raiment, bathed, and escorted to bed in the bedchamber of the god, often on top of the temple tower, or ziggurat. To see to all of this the god had priests trained as cooks, bakers, waiters, and bathers, or as encomiasts (singers of praise) and musicians to make the god’s meals festive, or as elegists to soothe him in times of stress and grief. Diversions from the daily routine were the great monthly festivals and also a number of special occasions.
Look for BAR magazine, Biblical Archeology Review
Check your library for
Ancient near Eastern Art
Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, New Series, Vol. 41, No. 4, Ancient near Eastern Art (Spring, 1984), pp. 1+6-56
They are… I’m doing the Happiness one.
Hubby is doing the We believe one.