[font=Times New Roman][size=3]The title of this thread is “A response to a specific recent thread.”
The purpose of this thread is solely for TOmNossor to post a response to a recent post. Those in the know might note that this response is not a reply to the most recent post, but this is a product of my not getting to that post before I became unable to find it.
[quote=Catholic Dude]I think I am up to date on this. I remarked that the “centuries old” comments were not a good choice of words to use and that I did not intend for it to be interpreted that way. As for the “witnesses” stuff, I admit you have me on a battlefield that I am not used to. But to finish this thought, it wouldnt be fair to say that the Bible (which is a great witness) wasnt used the whole time, in all these heresies the Bible (our most important guide) has been used as a tool to help show the truth.
I totally disagree that the Bible helps us to decide the 1 will 2 will debate. It just does not. The same is true of the Augustinian Trinity or the Social Trinity, creation ex nihilo or creation ex materia, and the primacy of Rome. The Bible is compatible with all of these ideas.
[quote=Catholic Dude]Now I must go carefully here because I am nowhere near an expert on this. First of all that quote is very weak from what I see. I dont know who that guy is, what church he goes to?, or if he is even Christian?, just because it says “scholar” doesnt mean anything. It says "some form
of subordination", this is so open to personal interpretation I dont know what more to say. From the Bible we see that Christ was subordinate in a way, but that doesnt diminsh Him. The bottom line is that quote does not hold water.
Hansen is not just some scholar, he is very well respected. I can show were the term “second god” was used by multiple pre-Nicea fathers. I can show were Jesus was claimed to be in the second place by a pre-Nicea father. I agree that the Bible points to subordination of Jesus Christ to God the Father. I do not see evidence of this subordination in the writings of Athanasius. I see very little evidence of this subordination in most Catholic thought including and post-Augustine. And, except for those who were declared heretics because of modalism, I do not think you will find folks pre-nicea (other than Athanasius) who speak of a co-equal formation as Athanasius did.
My position is that the preserving of tradition is not near so simple as the Maxim of St. Vincent de Lerins would suggest. Cardinal Newman is a tremendously respected Catholic scholar and he agrees.