Holy Blood, Holy Grail


#1

Is anyone familiar with this book? It has benefitted from renewed interest since the DaVinci code.

I read it about 15 years ago and know that the central hypothesis - that Jesus survived the Crucifixion and together with Mary Magdalene founded a bloodline that later became the Merovingians in France (protected by the Knights Templar and later by the Freemasons) is a major re-write of history. I am however having trouble with someone I am debating this subject with…There is little doubt that the book is meticulously researched and people do love to get into this sort of conspiracy theory!
I have used Karl Keating’s ideas in his piece on the DaVinci code, disinformation’s review and this nypress.com/17/28/books/KenMondschein.cfm as sources debunking the book’s credability so far, unfortunately, all are Catholic sources and so can hardly be considered unbiased. Has anyone any links or experiences defending the Church against the accusations held in this book?


#2

Hi Fightingfat, I read the Davinci Code and enjoyed it for what it was–fiction. My question for you is whether the Merovingians really believed they were descended from Jesus Christ and whether there are still ancesters of the Merovingians alive today as stated in the Davinci Code?

I don’t believe they are truly ancestors, but it is interesting to know if these people believed this about themselves, was it just a PR stunt to protect themselves, or did the author of Holy Blood, Holy Grail completely invent this.


#3

[quote=FightingFat]Is anyone familiar with this book? It has benefitted from renewed interest since the DaVinci code.

Iwith…There is little doubt that the book is meticulously researched and people do love to get into this sort of conspiracy theory!
I have used Karl Keating’s ideas in his piece on the DaVinci code, disinformation’s review and this nypress.com/17/28/books/KenMondschein.cfm as sources ?
[/quote]

there is EVERY doubt that the book is “meticulously researched” and you don’t need a religious source to tell you. Like its companions, Angels and Demons and TDVC, Dan Brown’s pseudo-historical romantic thrillers are short on research, long on imagination and mostly plagiarized from other works of imaginitive fiction. The plagiarism charge alone, now being tried in the courts, is enough to discredit him in the eyes of any serious academic researcher

. On this website are links to several books, some by Catholics and others by non-catholics, debunking Brown’s rewriting of history, and detailing minutely his errors of fact and research.

If the topic of his books had no relationship to Jesus and the Church, they would still be condemned by serious historians for their gross errors and mistatements of fact about the history of the Roman Empire, church history, French history, Renaissance art, the sources of Arthurian legend, medieval romantic literature, freemasonry. His uncritical acceptance of the hoax “Priory of sion” alone disqualifies him from consideration as a bona fide researcher.


#4

[quote=puzzleannie]there is EVERY doubt that the book is “meticulously researched” and you don’t need a religious source to tell you. Like its companions, Angels and Demons and TDVC, Dan Brown’s pseudo-historical romantic thrillers are short on research, long on imagination and mostly plagiarized from other works of imaginitive fiction.
[/quote]

Have I misunderstood you puzzleannie? The book I’m talking about was written by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, Henry Lincoln three BBC journalists and was one of the texts Brown said inspired his thriller.
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440136482/104-4550350-7564738?v=glance


#5

[quote=FightingFat]Have I misunderstood you puzzleannie? The book I’m talking about was written by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, Henry Lincoln three BBC journalists and was one of the texts Brown said inspired his thriller.
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440136482/104-4550350-7564738?v=glance
[/quote]

I lost two paragraphs when I edited my post for typos, thanks for catching me up on it, I realize it does not make sense as it stands.
HBHG is one of the books Brown plagiarized from, and Cracking the DVC and Decoding DaVinci go into that, and the utter badness of the “research” behind it. It was hot when I was in college, and there was an entire lit/hist course offered debunking it, and the errors and research sins committed, used to help train us in historical research methods (MA in history program)
If ever learn to use the editing features properly I will be dangerous


#6

Cool! Can you remember any of it? Would really help me if you did!!

:yup:


#7

[quote=FightingFat]Cool! Can you remember any of it? Would really help me if you did!!

:yup:
[/quote]

the raft of books out there now debunking DVC critique the research it and HBHC are based on, the two I mentioned being the best


#8

Here’s a thought, if the Merovingians were decended from Jesus did why did their pagan chief Clovis need to convert to Christianity and be baptized? You would think he would have already been a Christian or at least a jew. :slight_smile:


#9

Grolsch- great name! Great factoid too! Have you got a source for it?

More like that would be cool!


#10

This is the book that Brown uses:

Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln published by Dell 1983.


#11

[quote=FightingFat]Grolsch- great name! Great factoid too! Have you got a source for it?

More like that would be cool!
[/quote]

Yeah you can read about the history of the Franks written by Gregory of Tours at the Internet Medieval Sourcebook:

At this time [A.D. 486] the army of Clovis pillaged many churches, for he was still sunk in the errors of idolatry. The soldiers had borne away from a church, with all the other ornaments of the holy ministry, a vase of marvelous size and beauty.

But when the queen had said these things, the mind of Clovis was not stirred to believe. He answered: “By the will of our gods all things are created and produced. Evidently your god can do nothing, and it is not even proved that he belongs to the race of gods.”

The queen unceasingly urged the king to acknowledge the true God, and forsake idols. But he could not in any wise be brought to believe until a war broke out with the Alemanni. Then he was by necessity compelled to confese what he had before willfully denied.

fordham.edu/halsall/source/gregtours1.html

As I’ve said, Clovis was the founder of the Merovingian dynasty and an unabashed pagan who destroyed churches until his conversion. If the merovingians did decended from Palestine then you can be sure they would not have been polytheistic.


#12

Can anybody answer my question that I posted early in the thread? I am very curious.


#13

[quote=bapcathluth]Can anybody answer my question that I posted early in the thread? I am very curious.
[/quote]

Completely invented. Just like the Priory of Scion organization was completely invented in 1952 by French nutcase Pierre Plantard.


#14

teach12.com/ttc/davincicode.asp

Here’s a free sample lecture (actually 2 lectures) by Bart Ehrman, a noted historian of early Christianity (who is not especially sympathetic to what emerged as orthodoxy, let alone Catholicism), which pretty nicely debunks most of the historic claims reflected in the DaVinci Code, at least through the time of Constantine, including the supposed marriage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.


#15

thank you, have been looking for this link for two days, after talking to daughter a UNC student who told me about the lectures. this is a very worthwhile site, so give it the time it demands, and learn something.


#16

FightingFat,

The best debunking of all of these that I’ve seen is
The Da Vinci Hoax by Olson and Miesel.
It’s one of the best footnoted books I’'ve seen ( the vast majority are noin-Catholic and VERY legitimate soiurces).
They take them all on and deconstruct them piece-by-piece.


#17

[quote=FightingFat]Is anyone familiar with this book? It has benefitted from renewed interest since the DaVinci code.

[/quote]

A few months ago I read that its authors were suing the Da Vinci code author for using their matrial - haven’t heard anymore since then.

Amy Wellborn the very well known blogger has written a book debunking the Da Vinci code and has been on a book tour promoting it and talking with groups.

Basically the two books represent a branch of Gnosticism which is still alive and flourishing and which includes the Church at Rennes - which has in recent years spent a great deal of money rehabbing the place as a major tourist stop.


#18

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