Holy Self-Hatred

Could someone explain this to me? Many of the saints advocate this attitude, but precisely what is it? If it could free me from myself I’d like to practice it, because caring so much about desires and needs is ruining me - I could use the joy.

I think it might involve a love of suffering and abjection.. and joyfully putting God's will above your own, understanding how everything depends on His mercy.

[quote="WoundedIcon, post:1, topic:258133"]
Could someone explain this to me? Many of the saints advocate this attitude, but precisely what is it? If it could free me from myself I'd like to practice it, because caring so much about desires and needs is ruining me - I could use the joy.

[/quote]

Greetings WoundedIcon,

Detacthment from all things but God. Think of what Jesus said when he said If anyone does not hate mother or father, or ect, he cannot be my discplie. Same principle. We must be willing to forsake everything for the Love of Jesus. It is only in this way that we can love Jesus perfectly and love others perfectly.

The more we kill our desires, our wants, and our needs except that desires, wants, and needs for God, the more we will come into Union with God.

I hope this explains somewhat.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

I see it as profound humility in the face of who God really is and who I am.

Am I willing to please God instead of pleasing myself?

-Tim-

I think we need to view it in the context of Jesus basic command upon which rests the foundation of our spiritual lives:

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’Matthew 22:36-40

If anyone imagines that to obey these two commands is easy they are going to be surprised.
To love God above all often requires sacrifice of ones selfish desires.
To love others, to act in kindness and in support of others in practical kindness every day is a huge daily sacrifice of self will and self-indulgence.

For any of us simply to do this in our head, effort wasted on self, and simply thinking about ourselves without acting in good deeds to others, in kind words, helpful deeds...leaving less time to worry about ourselves, that is the self sacrifice God asks.

We theorize too much sometimes, overlooking the words of Jesus, our God and Savior. He says, what matters is to love God above all and others as ourselves, in which the implicit command is to love self, but in a healthy, unselfish, un-self-indulgent way, as a child whose life is a gift of God and should be lived with genuine, active charity to others...and that is where the cost is, because we are so easily selfish.

And why do we so often overlook also the clear words of Jesus on how He judges souls, what He expects of us.
What Jesus taught isn't couched in complicated language or absorbed introspection.

He basically says.
You go to heaven if you lives in practical acts of kindness to others,
which He states is acts of kindness done to Him,
and you don't go to heaven if you haven't lived a life where you give practical help to the sick and needy, where you don't show kindness to others in the thousands of little daily ways we can
He said all that in Matthew 25, verses 31-46.

Jesus wasn't speaking lightly when He said,
“I tell you solemnly, anyone who does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” Then He put His arms around them, laid His hands on them and gave them His blessing.” [Mark 10:14-16]

  • “The disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?’ So He called a little child to him and set him in front of them. Then He said, ‘I tell you solemnly, unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. And so, the one who makes himself as little as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.’”* [Matthew 18:1-4]

We often feel it must be complicated to live a true Christian life.
It isn't. Not is we listen to what our God and Savior actually says to us in His own words.

It is one of the rare times when Jesus was lyrical in joy, when He said:"
*“Jesus exclaimed, ‘I bless You, Father, Lord of heaven and of earth, for hiding these things from the learned and clever and revealing them to mere children. Yes, Father, for that is what it pleased You to do.” *[FONT=Arial][Matthew 11:25-26]

And we are that little child He speaks of when we take His actual words and His basic message into our hearts and lives. And that message is simply to Love God, love others. And that is where the sacrifice lies. In utter sincere living these things. The sacrifice is that we are self-centered and so it costs us, it costs our pride, our preference to please and indulge ourselves, our comfortable wish to immerse ourselves in our own interests. And that's what 'hating self. means. Hating oneself in a way that doesn't give love to others is simply self-destructive.

...(What you said, Timothy, but with more words)
[/FONT]

Hello OP

Denying yourself is a great practice for want of trying but the biggest snag is being able to commit yourself to that course and the grace to continue in such a difficult vain .

Suffering comes to us all at some point and yes the choice to accept now and not be surprised later is preferable .

Do as you can , , be gentile with your success

I am not liking your term "self-hatred" and not sure where I have ever seen a saint advocate that. Detachment, though, is a horse of a different color.

I find the **Principle & Foundation from the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius **to be a good starting point to learn the "art of detachment".

Man is created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save his soul.

And the other things on the face of the earth are created for man and that they may help him in prosecuting the end for which he is created.

From this it follows that man is to use them as much as they help him on to his end, and ought to rid himself of them so far as they hinder him as to it.

For this it is necessary to make ourselves indifferent to all created things in all that is allowed to the choice of our free will and is not prohibited to it; so that, on our part, we want not health rather than sickness, riches rather than poverty, honor rather than dishonor, long rather than short life, and so in all the rest; desiring and choosing only what is most conducive for us to the end for which we are created

[quote="WoundedIcon, post:1, topic:258133"]
Could someone explain this to me? Many of the saints advocate this attitude, but precisely what is it? If it could free me from myself I'd like to practice it, because caring so much about desires and needs is ruining me - I could use the joy.

[/quote]

It sounds like humility to the point of self-loathing to me.

[quote="Anathama_Sit, post:3, topic:258133"]
Greetings WoundedIcon,

Detacthment from all things but God. Think of what Jesus said when he said If anyone does not hate mother or father, or ect, he cannot be my discplie. Same principle. We must be willing to forsake everything for the Love of Jesus. It is only in this way that we can love Jesus perfectly and love others perfectly.

The more we kill our desires, our wants, and our needs except that desires, wants, and needs for God, the more we will come into Union with God.

I hope this explains somewhat.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

[/quote]

Its often occurred to me that there's a similarity between the practice (or at least theory) of Buddhism and basic Christianity.

Both of them involve a rejection/emptying of the self.
But Buddhists are supposed to empty themselves so that everything/the universe can seep in, while Christians empty themselves so that God can fill the void.

Of course both paths involve contempt for, or at least a dismissal and rejection of, the qualities that make us human.

[quote="WoundedIcon, post:1, topic:258133"]
Could someone explain this to me? Many of the saints advocate this attitude, but precisely what is it? If it could free me from myself I'd like to practice it, because caring so much about desires and needs is ruining me - I could use the joy.

[/quote]

Where did you find this term?

Greetings AngryAtheist8,

Yes, there are similarities between Buddhism and basic Christianity.

However I am not sure if we are to have contempt for all of our qualities that make us human. Free will being one of them. We are free to choose to empty ourselves for the sake of God and ect. I think that it is in by emptying ourselves for God, we become more human than if we were to seek after what we truly wanted or our selfish needs and desires. *

God Bless.
Anathama Sit*

Holy self-hatred is a re-occurring theme in the Dialogue of St Catherine of Siena, doctor of the church. In her dialogue it is repeatedly mentioned as a very necessary route to heaven.
Trying to figure out what it means myself:shrug:

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