Holy water- EF vs. OF


#1

I only get holy water once a year now on Epiphany from a TLM parish in another city. That’s when I can watch holy water being confected before my very eyes and know exactly how they made it. I prefer bottling only EF holy water with the exorcisms of salt and water. However, this may not always be so easy to find!

A lot of parishes in my city have large vessels in the church where you can bottle holy water, but I don’t always know how they made it. How do you go about asking the priest without sounding like a prick? I don’t want to offend anyone, but I really don’t want to be bottling OF holy water. Or even worse…holy water diluted with regular water (which I have heard is a practice at some churches).

Also, the situation is even more confusing at that TLM parish I mentioned above. They have EF and OF masses in that church. Who knows exactly if the holy water is EF or OF? Maybe depending on who blessed it during a particular week! Maybe I need to taste it to see how salty it is?


#2

Do they come in original, patented, all rights reserved and royalty paid (to the Lord) or in fake copied bottles?


#3

[quote="michaelnrdx, post:1, topic:309284"]
How do you go about asking the priest without sounding like a prick? I don't want to offend anyone, but I really don't want to be bottling OF holy water.
Also, the situation is even more confusing at that TLM parish I mentioned above. They have EF and OF masses in that church. Who knows exactly if the holy water is EF or OF?

Seriously? Do you have any idea how silly and disrespectful this sounds?

[/quote]


#4

[quote="agnes_therese, post:3, topic:309284"]

I was thinking the same thing- is this guy for real? Look back over his past posts and threads and that should put a lot into perspective.......
[/quote]


#5

The questions is "for real" and I understand where this guy is coming from. I used to be like that...

Holy water is not "EF or OF". You can ask a priest if he could provide you with Holy Water blessed with the traditional rite.

[Keep in mind that a Deacon cannot bless holy water in the traditional rite but can bless water with the post-concilar blessing]


#6

[quote="mfrances, post:5, topic:309284"]
The questions is "for real" and I understand where this guy is coming from. I used to be like that...

Holy water is not "EF or OF". You can ask a priest if he could provide you with Holy Water blessed with the traditional rite.

[Keep in mind that a Deacon cannot bless holy water in the traditional rite but can bless water with the post-concilar blessing]

[/quote]

I think it was his suspicion of the Mass in OF (on this thread and another) and his use of words to describe how he didn't want to appear to the priest that made it sound a little "trollish" and that's why I questioned it and also why I commented about looking at his past threads to put his issues into perspective.

Thank you for letting him know that there is no such thing as EF or OF holy water.


#7

This is a serious question. What I meant by “EF or OF” holy water is whether the holy water was blessed with the Roman Ritual, 1962 version (or older) or whether it was blessed with the most current Book of Blessings.

There is a difference between the two blessings. “EF” holy water has an exorcism of salt and water, while in the “OF,” salt is optional and there are no exorcisms. Furthermore, the more fundamental difference between the two blessings is whether it is a constitutive or an invocative blessing. In the “EF,” there are specifically the words “bless this water, etc” while in “OF” the formula of blessing is more along the lines of bless those who use it, etc.

And yes, I could probably ask the priest to bless water for me in the EF. That would be another step. However, if I were to bottle some holy water in the church, there really is no way I could tell how it was blessed, coming from a church that uses both forms. In all reality, their holy water could be blessed both ways depending on which priest blessed it during which particular week–if they took turns or something like that. I don’t really see how it is a disrespectful question when I’m merely trying to stick with a particular form. What I don’t want to do is bring up the question to the priest of how he blesses the holy water and give the appearance of snobbery that I think he’s doing something wrong. Sure, I won’t bottle OF holy water, but that’s just my personal preference.

And another note…I think it is a bit presumptious to be speculating on my motivations? I don’t harbor any suspicions against the OF masses. Those are the ones I attend most often. However, I do prefer the EF masses. They just aren’t as accessible to me. Would you blame other people who have a certain preference for either the EF or OF mass for harboring certain suspicions agaisnt the other form? When it comes to getting sacramentals blessed, I definitely don’t get them done any other way except in the EF. I’ve gone to OF priests and asked for the EF blessings, and they have been very helpful. However, I think it would be a bit offensive if I went up asked for holy water to be blessed in the EF if they already provide holy water in the church that is blessed in the OF. That’s why I brought up the question of how to ask the priest about this and avoid asking him to personally bless water for me.


#8

Preferring to Holy water blessed with the rite associated to the EF is a personal and acceptable choice, rejection or disregard for the Holy water blessed with the rite associated with the OF is a clear sign of superstition and thus it is not acceptable because contrary to the teachings of the Church.


#9

Thanks for seeing that I’m not trolling. This is exactly why I decided to ask about it on a forum first, because it could easily be construed as offensive or whatever.


#10

The OP has a valid concern. Fr. Z has talked about this very issue and is himself not entirely decided on it. Take a look at his blog post here.

wdtprs.com/blog/2012/06/quaeritur-is-water-blessed-with-the-newer-rites-really-holy-water/


#11

[quote="michaelnrdx, post:9, topic:309284"]
Thanks for seeing that I'm not trolling. This is exactly why I decided to ask about it on a forum first, because it could easily be construed as offensive or whatever.

[/quote]

your language is offensive ,there was no need for profanity


#12

your not catholic and you have a preference for the Extraordinary Form?


#13

Thanks for posting the link. Father Z’s arguments are impeccable, and I just voted in the poll at the end of the blog.


#14

[quote="april32010, post:11, topic:309284"]
your language is offensive ,there was no need for profanity

[/quote]

Profanity? I wasn't aware that I had spoken profanity, but do excuse me.


#15

[quote="april32010, post:12, topic:309284"]
your not catholic and you have a preference for the Extraordinary Form?

[/quote]

I'm still exploring, but I do like the EF better...


#16

Yes, I have been reading Father Z’s posts and was thus concerned about the EF vs. OF holy water. There was also another post by Father Z about what an EF priest should do if he arrives late to mass and does not have EF holy water already blessed. Should he delay mass and make some EF holy water, just use some OF holy water from the fonts, or skip the Asperges altogether? Father Z then mentioned that there would probably be good reasons for any of the options, but then noted that using OF holy water for the Asperges would be considered “mixing of forms.”

This leads me to think that perhaps one way I could roughly determine if the holy water is EF or OF at a parish that offers both forms is simply to attend a few EF masses and see if the Asperges is done. (Assuming all rules are followed to the tee.) At the TLM parish I sometimes attend, I have never seen an Asperges, which makes me think that EF holy water is not regularly made.


#17

[quote="michaelnrdx, post:14, topic:309284"]
Profanity? I wasn't aware that I had spoken profanity, but do excuse me.

[/quote]

Look back at your post. You used the phrase 'looking like a pr....ck'. That is very offensive, but I am sure you did not realise. It's best to avoid that phrase in mixed company, though!


#18

Holy water is a reminder of our baptism and is not to be used in a superstitious manner. As we use holy water as a recollection of the sacrament of baptism and our baptismal covenant we are called by the Lord through its use to grow in holiness so that the evil one will not be able to lead us into temptation. The whole idea of water having more efficacy and "power" being blessed in the old rite verses the rite from the book of blessings is not founded in Church teaching, but actually comes from the politics between traditionalists verses the so-called Novus Ordo Church.

The efficacy of holy water comes from being blessed by a priest of whatever Church in communion with Rome, whether Eastern or Latin. When the priest blesses the water in the name of the Church he by his authority separates it for holy use and thus it is properly the "Church's water" and thus when we are stewards of the water which belongs to the Church we are to use it as the Church instructs. If our lives our not holy, the water blessed by the Church, is not being used for the purpose the Church desires for it, namely, the sanctification of the People of God as they progress toward the universal call to holiness and our end in God.

The devil is more afraid of holy people than holy water and if unholy people use holy water for other uses other than to remind them of their baptismal covenant and the need to return to the Lord then the point is lost. Holy water blessed in the old rite and the new rite or any rite of the Catholic Church by a priest who represents the whole Church has the same purpose again to remind us of the wonderful joyous day of our baptism and the covenant we made or was made on our behalf as infants--the event of our baptism is what the devil fears most and the purity of clean water with the blessing of the whole Church reminds him that he can never approach the throne of God again and he can never be saved.


#19

Is there any way to test the water whether it is pure holy like 100% or 98% holy, 50% or simply tape water not holy at all?:wink:

Have a holy Christmas.


#20

You mean the Fr Z of the Carribbean cruise during Lent?
Apparently he has impeccable taste with luxury items, too.
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=10160636#post10160636


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