Homosexual Orientation Allowed?


#1

Let me get this straight…according to the catholic church:

Gay marriage is not allowed
Gay sex is not allowed
However, being a homosexual is allowed as an orientation? So you can be gay, and its not a sin as long as u remain celibate?


#2

[quote=Polska]Let me get this straight…according to the catholic church:

Gay marriage is not allowed
Gay sex is not allowed
However, being a homosexual is allowed as an orientation? So you can be gay, and its not a sin as long as u remain celibate?
[/quote]

It is gravely disordered and it is serious, but in and of itself, it carries no culpability.


#3

[quote=Polska] Let me get this straight
[/quote]

Is this an unintentional pun?

However, being a homosexual is allowed as an orientation?

The way you frame the question is incorrect. The Church does not speculate as to whether or not homosexuality as an orientation is biological or chosen (for some it certainly is chosen).

If it is chosen then naturally a person has no intention of following Church teaching–why would you opt for a sexual disorder just so that you could remain celibate?

If it is biological, and there is not necessarily a preponderance of evidence that it is, a homosexual person must remain chaste.


#4

Thats crazy because I thought being gay was wrong ie. You have to try for the gay person to find God and somehow be converted to a heterosexual. Maybe this is because…im guessing… a large number of gays are because of choice, perversion etc. instead of beign truly born gay.


#5

it wasnt a pun… i just wanted to get it straight as I have been having a discussion with a person and getting confused :wink:


#6

[quote=Polska]Let me get this straight…according to the catholic church:

Gay marriage is not allowed
Gay sex is not allowed
However, being a homosexual is allowed as an orientation? So you can be gay, and its not a sin as long as u remain celibate?
[/quote]

Orientations are neutral - like gravity or taste. You have an orientation too - everyone does :slight_smile:

What one does with being of this or that orientation, is where morals come in. ##


#7

[quote=Polska]Thats crazy because I thought being gay was wrong ie. You have to try for the gay person to find God and somehow be converted to a heterosexual. Maybe this is because…im guessing… a large number of gays are because of choice, perversion etc. instead of beign truly born gay.
[/quote]

We all have various inclinations to sin, and “homosexuals” are no different. Having an inclination to sin is not sin.

As previous posters have said, “being homosexual” is just another way of saying that a person is tempted by sexual encounters with people of the same sex. As with all sin, we are called to avoid it, even doing our best to avoid thinking about it.

Asking someone who suffers from homosexual attractions to live a chaste life is no different than asking any single adult to live a chaste life. Their call is the same – to serve God.

That said, I personally find it odd that anyone would want to choose a label for themselves that identifies them with a sinful lifestyle they are trying to avoid. I guess, however, it is similar to those with alcoholism or other addictions who find more strength in resisting the temptations through openly admitting their addiction or sinful inclination.

Peace,
javelin


#8

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## Orientations are neutral - like gravity or taste. You have an orientation too - everyone does :slight_smile:

What one does with being of this or that orientation, is where morals come in. ##
[/quote]

The one thing that I would take isse with here is the use of the term neutral. The homosexual (SSA) orientation is intrinsically evil as it is ordered to contraception. JPII addressed this issue on various occasions.


#9

[quote=mosher]The one thing that I would take isse with here is the use of the term neutral. The homosexual (SSA) orientation is intrinsically evil as it is ordered to contraception. JPII addressed this issue on various occasions.
[/quote]

It is neutral in the sense that the person afflicted with such a tendency is not morally culpable for it. Acting on the tendency is another matter.


#10

Having kleptomaniacal tendencies is not a sin.
Acting kleptomaniacallly is.

Being an alcoholic is not sinful,
but actively engaging in alcoholic behavior can be.

Etc., etc…

And likewise with homosexuality. The Church’s distinction between homosexual orientation and homosexual actions can be best understood when we recognize the fact that, like pedophilia, bestiality, sadomasochism, etc., homosexuality involves a grave mental disorder. Having a grave mental disorder, of whatever kind, is not sinful - but acting out on it may well be.


#11

[quote=mosher]The one thing that I would take isse with here is the use of the term neutral. The homosexual (SSA) orientation is intrinsically evil as it is ordered to contraception.
[/quote]

I’ll need a citation before I believe that.

The Catechism is clear the the inclination is “objectively disordered”. Sexually speaking, the term “evil” seems reserved for rape and contraception.


#12

[quote=Sherlock]It is neutral in the sense that the person afflicted with such a tendency is not morally culpable for it. Acting on the tendency is another matter.
[/quote]

Correct it is not in itself a sin to have SSA but one cannot sat the SSA is neutral as it is intrinsically disordered.


#13

[quote=tjmiller]Having kleptomaniacal tendencies is not a sin.
Acting kleptomaniacallly is.

Being an alcoholic is not sinful,
but actively engaging in alcoholic behavior can be.

Etc., etc…

And likewise with homosexuality. The Church’s distinction between homosexual orientation and homosexual actions can be best understood when we recognize the fact that, like pedophilia, bestiality, sadomasochism, etc., homosexuality involves a grave mental disorder. Having a grave mental disorder, of whatever kind, is not sinful - but acting out on it may well be.
[/quote]

The Church does not affirm yet that SSA is an mental disorder rather it says that SSA is intrinsically disordered. These are two very different things.


#14

[quote=mosher]The Church does not affirm yet that SSA is an mental disorder rather it says that SSA is intrinsically disordered. These are two very different things.
[/quote]

The Church doesn’t have the competance to rule on whether it is a mental disorder or not. She can only comment/rule/teach that the acts are sinful, because they always have been sinful. She makes no comment on any thing else, other than the fact that it is disordered (“contrary to order,” in this case, the natural order and natural law"). What I’m saying is that the Church isn’t a doctor and doesn’t claim to be.

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.“142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”


#15

[quote=mosher]Correct it is not in itself a sin to have SSA but one cannot sat the SSA is neutral as it is intrinsically disordered.
[/quote]

Yup, we don’t disagree on that one.


#16

The homosexual (SSA) orientation is intrinsically evil as it is ordered to contraception

The homosexual orientation is intrinsically disordered, not evil. Check the Catechism. Anyway, the vast majority of people don’t chose to be homosexual anymore than people chose to be heterosexual. Homosexual orientation is blameless, but that doesn’t mean that it is natural. It is homosexual acts that are evil. Homosexuals, like all Christians, are called to chastity.


#17

[quote=Mike O]Is this an unintentional pun?

The way you frame the question is incorrect. The Church does not speculate as to whether or not homosexuality as an orientation is biological or chosen (for some it certainly is chosen).

If it is chosen then naturally a person has no intention of following Church teaching–why would you opt for a sexual disorder just so that you could remain celibate?

If it is biological, and there is not necessarily a preponderance of evidence that it is, a homosexual person must remain chaste.
[/quote]

It’s reasonable to say there are various causes of homosexuality. There is no preponderance of evidenc for any of them.


#18

[quote=mosher]The one thing that I would take isse with here is the use of the term neutral. The homosexual (SSA) orientation is intrinsically evil as it is ordered to contraception. JPII addressed this issue on various occasions.
[/quote]

What do you mean when you say SSA is ordered to contraception?


#19

[quote=mosher]Correct it is not in itself a sin to have SSA but one cannot sat the SSA is neutral as it is intrinsically disordered.
[/quote]

What does intrinsically disordered mean? I’m not trying to pick at your words, but have never understood what the Church is talking about when they use such terms.


#20

Here are a few sites to help you with your friend:

Catholic Medical Assoc

CourageRC

Narth

Stephen Bennett Minitries


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.