Homosexuality 777 (Adv. class)


#1

Everyone today is leaning towards trying to understand how homosexuality and gay marriage can fit into society without accepting it.
There is no greater slap in God's face than homosexuality. It is from Lucifer himself. Homosexual acts are "hate crimes" against God and society(man-kind). We use to think that rape was from sexual drive issues. Then man figured out that it had nothing to do with sex, that it was a hate crime. Homosexual acts are not acts of Love. They can not be. Love is from God and these acts oppose God. They are actually hate crimes against God's creation plan. God gave man woman as a Divine gift from mans own rib out of Divine Love, to share in His Divine Love. That is why the union of man and woman is a Sacrament. Sacraments are alive, because they are from and of God. Homosexuals are saying to God you messed up. Man can be with man.... Wow gutsy move! Gay marriage is not civil in nature, it is morally and ethically wrong. I will repeat my words, which mt Bishop agrees with, Homosexuality is a Hate Crime! Do not give in to Lucifer and his tactics.


#2

I agree


#3

You are absolutely correct. None of what you said is wrong. All the same I wouldn't approach an admitted homosexual to share that with them without first putting it in a more loving and charitable light.


#4

We must all remember that this is not an attack against people who are gay or feel homosexuality is OK. " I do not agree with it, but it is their life not mine, " is the most dangerous approach any Christian can take. We are obligated by the Gospels to Love these people with all our hearts, as I do. However the truth must be known and Loved also. The act is a hate crime. I do not hate the person who shoplifts, however, they still get arrested. Homosexuals seem to have a difficult time separating hate the act not the person.


#5

If it helps - I find that changing how you refer to people who are sinning in this way not as "Homosexuals" but "People with same-sex desires."

By framing it that way, you can show that they can change and act on their desires. By labeling them homosexual/gay, it's almost cementing their identity by their sin.


#6

[quote="chiroworks, post:1, topic:285449"]
Everyone today is leaning towards trying to understand how homosexuality and gay marriage can fit into society without accepting it.
There is no greater slap in God's face than homosexuality. It is from Lucifer himself. Homosexual acts are "hate crimes" against God and society(man-kind). We use to think that rape was from sexual drive issues. Then man figured out that it had nothing to do with sex, that it was a hate crime. Homosexual acts are not acts of Love. They can no be. Love is from God and these acts oppose God. They are actually hate crimes against God's creation plan. God gave man woman as a Divine gift from mans own rib out of Divine Love, to share in His Divine Love. That is why the union of man and woman is a Sacrament. Sacraments are alive, because they are from and of God. Homosexuals are saying to God you messed up. Man can be with man.... Wow gutsy move! Gay marriage is not civil in nature, it is morally and ethically wrong. I will repeat my words, which mt Bishop agrees with, Homosexuality is a Hate Crime! Do not give in to Lucifer and his tactics.

[/quote]

I would think that abortion - the deliberate termination of an innocent human life that God has just created - is more of a "slap in God's face" than a given disordered sexual act. What could be more hateful than killing a baby? This is not a defense of homosexual acts but this kind of language too easily blurs the line between same-sex attraction and homosexual acts themselves.


#7

[quote="chiroworks, post:1, topic:285449"]
Everyone today is leaning towards trying to understand how homosexuality and gay marriage can fit into society without accepting it.
There is no greater slap in God's face than homosexuality. It is from Lucifer himself. Homosexual acts are "hate crimes" against God and society(man-kind). We use to think that rape was from sexual drive issues. Then man figured out that it had nothing to do with sex, that it was a hate crime. Homosexual acts are not acts of Love. They can not be. Love is from God and these acts oppose God. They are actually hate crimes against God's creation plan. God gave man woman as a Divine gift from mans own rib out of Divine Love, to share in His Divine Love. That is why the union of man and woman is a Sacrament. Sacraments are alive, because they are from and of God. Homosexuals are saying to God you messed up. Man can be with man.... Wow gutsy move! Gay marriage is not civil in nature, it is morally and ethically wrong. I will repeat my words, which mt Bishop agrees with, Homosexuality is a Hate Crime! Do not give in to Lucifer and his tactics.

[/quote]

"There is no greater slap in the fact to God than homosexuality?"

Really? You speak for God now? Because I don't see that written anywhere in the Bible. in fact, there are many other sins, such as gluttony or pride, that are talked about far FAR more in the Bible than homosexuality.

Also, what about atheism? Or Satanism? How can you say that homosexuality is more offensive to God than saying he either does not exist or should be less revered than Satan?

Aren't people who fly in airplanes also saying God messed up? After all, God didn't give us wings. So isn't us flying in airplanes telling God he messed up by not giving us wings? And if you say 'but God gave us the ability to make airplanes' than you must also admit that God gave men the ability to love other men.

Also, I find it terrifying you want to start a current day Inquisition in which people can be charged with crimes for not following Catholic doctrine. You say that a Hindu or agnostic or Buddhist is committing a hate crime if they are gay, even if they don't believe in the Judeo Christian God in the first place. Does that mean you are committing a hate crime against a Hindu for eating beef? Does that mean you are committing a hate crime against a Jew or a Muslim by eating pork? Or is it only a hate crime for non Christians not to follow Christian beliefs?

"God gave man woman as a Divine gift from mans own rib out of Divine Love, to share in His Divine Love. That is why the union of man and woman is a Sacrament."

Why are homosexuals automatically the most guilty for breaking this Sacrament? Why? Why isn't anyone else who breaks this sacrament equally guilty; people who have sex outside of marriage, rapists, women who refuse to hav sex with their husbands. Women who decide, of their own choice, not to ever get married and/or have children. People who divorce and remarry. Why is homosexuals breaking this sacrament worse than anyone else who does? I have a close gay relative who has been in a committed relationship for twenty years with his same sex partner, and there is no indication he has ever cheated on his partner. How is he more guilty of breaking the sacrament of marriage than a man like say, Tiger Woods, who has literally dozens of extra marital affairs? Or John Edwards, who cheated on his dying wife, and who, even after being caught by his wife who begged him to stop the affair, continued it and in fact fathered a child with his mistress, causing devastating psychological dispair to his dying wife?

Also, what about hermphrodites? If they ever are in a romantic relationship, is this a hate crime? Isn't there very existence a hate crime, since they are neither a man nor a woman?

I have a young niece. I recently gave her a toy. It is a bucket with a removeable top, and has shapes cut out into the top that correspond with shaped blocks. The point is to put the right shaped blocks into the right shaped hole. However, my niece does not use the toy for its intended purpose. She uses the toy as a stool or a seat. She removes the blocks and plays with them separately.

According to you, my niece hates both me and the toy manufacturer, and is committing a crime against us. She is saying hey, you messed up by making that toy for blocks rather than for a stool! She thinks she knows better than us and is slapping us in the face because she is using something made with a specific purpose for a reason that goes against its design.

What punishment do you think my niece should be subjected to for her hateful, offensive act?


#8

[quote="chiroworks, post:4, topic:285449"]
We must all remember that this is not an attack against people who are gay or feel homosexuality is OK. " I do not agree with it, but it is their life not mine, " is the most dangerous approach any Christian can take. We are obligated by the Gospels to Love these people with all our hearts, as I do. However the truth must be known and Loved also. The act is a hate crime. I do not hate the person who shoplifts, however, they still get arrested. Homosexuals seem to have a difficult time separating hate the act not the person.

[/quote]

Do you also tell every fat person you see that they are committing the sin of gluttony? This is not only a sin but an incredibly harmful one. It hugely affects the quality of life for an obese person and often leads to premature death. It can affect family members, who are hugely burdened both personally and financially by having to care for someone who has a devastating physical ailment (for instance, a stroke) due to obesity. It affects society by driving up the cost of healthcare.

Yet Christians do not seem to feel compelled to tell the "truth" to gluttons the way they do to homosexuals, despite the fact that gluttony if far more widespread and has far worse measureable detriments both to individuals and to society.

That is why it is hard for me to believe that this need to tell homosexuals how sinful/hateful they are is anything more than bigotry and hatred. Because if it isn't, why isn't anyone else who is in a constant state of sin (such as gluttons) treated the same way?

I also think it is a way to assuage ourselves of our own sin. For instance, if you are not a gay person and have never had any homosexual inclinations, then you are in no danger of committing the sin of homosexuality. Therefor, it is extremely attractive to make homosexuality out to be the "worst" sin, because conveniently it is a sin you know you yourself will never commit. Therefor, whatever sins you commit as a heterosexual, you can still feel sanctimonious and superior because at least you haven't committed the sin of homosexuality, which is the worst one.


#9

[quote="Jules_Verne, post:8, topic:285449"]
Do you also tell every fat person you see that they are committing the sin of gluttony?

Tell me, where do you see "every fat person" screaming about civil rights and equality for acceptance of gluttony???

[/quote]


#10

[quote="Jules_Verne, post:7, topic:285449"]
Also, I find it terrifying you want to start a current day Inquisition in which people can be charged with crimes for not following Catholic doctrine. You say that a Hindu or agnostic or Buddhist is committing a hate crime if they are gay, even if they don't believe in the Judeo Christian God in the first place. Does that mean you are committing a hate crime against a Hindu for eating beef? Does that mean you are committing a hate crime against a Jew or a Muslim by eating pork? Or is it only a hate crime for non Christians not to follow Christian beliefs?

[/quote]

I massively second this. Many people do not share your religious beliefs, and do not think there is anything wrong with homosexuality. And homosexuality is a "sin" in your opinion, but its a sin that is done between consenting adults. Therefore it does not directly affect you, and I see no reason for you to not respect their individual religious freedom and their thus guilt free homosexuality. If they are committing a hate crime against god (even though isn't that every sin per what you believe?), then let god take care of them in the afterlife, since they don't affect you in this one. Unless you think the first amendment should just be ignored, and lets make this a tyrannical Catholic theocracy.


#11

jm

*Unless you think the first amendment should just be ignored, and lets make this a tyrannical Catholic theocracy. *

This is not strictly speaking a position of Catholics only. I know Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and others who are horrified by sodomy and the idiotic respect it has gained in America. Cut the cr-p about Catholic theocracy. There is more atheocracy in America than theocracy. Or hadn't you noticed? :rolleyes:


#12

[quote="jmvizanko, post:10, topic:285449"]
And homosexuality is a "sin" in your opinion...

...guilt free homosexuality.

[/quote]

It's not a sin in *our *opinion. We don't decide what sins are. It's a sin in God's eyes.

And we're not responsible for someone's guilt. If they feel guilty, maybe it's because deep inside, they know they're wrong, and need us to say it's right so they can be guilt-free. And need to defile what marriage is so they can feel guilt free.

If it's so important to them, they can actively ignore us and live together in sin.


#13

Yikes, this HAS to be a troller!

I gotta re-read this...


#14

[quote="Charlemagne_II, post:11, topic:285449"]
jm

*Unless you think the first amendment should just be ignored, and lets make this a tyrannical Catholic theocracy. *

This is not strictly speaking a position of Catholics only. I know Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and others who are horrified by sodomy and the idiotic respect it has gained in America. Cut the cr-p about Catholic theocracy. There is more atheocracy in America than theocracy. Or hadn't you noticed? :rolleyes:

[/quote]

So what, you would like to make sodomy illegal then? A consensual sex act that does not affect you? Give me the secular argument for that.

And secular does not equal atheistic. Its a respect for all religions and the practice of them, including no religion. I am opposed to anything that limits a freedom or action that is consensual between adults, because I respect that there are people of different religions, some of which include what I would think is strange rules and behaviors. Its called live and let live. Gay people don't affect you. They are adults doing things with consenting adults. You can either pick to be more pro freedom and not care about what they do, even if you disapprove, or you can oppress freedom and try to make it illegal. But if you pick that latter, I just have to ask, how would you feel if we say, banned religious schools?


#15

[quote="Dymphna82, post:12, topic:285449"]
It's not a sin in *our *opinion. We don't decide what sins are. It's a sin in God's eyes.

[/quote]

That's what I meant by opinion. To people that do not share your faith, your god, and what he dissolves of, is your opinion.

[quote="Dymphna82, post:12, topic:285449"]
And we're not responsible for someone's guilt. If they feel guilty, maybe it's because deep inside, they know they're wrong, and need us to say it's right so they can be guilt-free. And need to defile what marriage is so they can feel guilt free.

[/quote]

Such hate in your words. Non-religious or liberally religious gay people are not bent on defiling anything, they are just simply gay and comfortable with that. Next are you going to suggest they all have acid for blood?

[quote="Dymphna82, post:12, topic:285449"]
If it's so important to them, they can actively ignore us and live together in sin.

[/quote]

Which is exactly what most of them do. They don't see it as sin and therefore they don't care. If it makes your god so angry, then tell him to come down and yell at them. Because what they are doing doesn't affect you.


#16

This is the same thing that I believe. I don't hate homosexuals but I hate the act of sodomy. I believe that people need to realize that by being against homosexuality doesn't mean that you are a hater or even that you hate the person themselves. This is simply not true. I have many friends who are themselves homosexual yet I do not hate them just what they do. I have compassion for people I know who steal and would do what I can to help them, it is just the act of stealing that I am against.


#17

[quote="jmvizanko, post:15, topic:285449"]
That's what I meant by opinion. To people that do not share your faith, it is your opinion.

[/quote]

Believe it or not, my personal opinions can differ from God's opinion. I will still support God's opinion above my own.

Such hate in your words. Non-religious or liberally religious gay people are not bent on defiling anything, they are just simply gay and comfortable with that. Next are you going to suggest they all have acid for blood?

If they're comfortable with it, then they don't need to get married then.

Which is exactly what most of them do. They don't see it as sin and therefore they don't care. If it makes your god so angry, then tell him to come down and yell at them. Because what they are doing doesn't affect you.

What they are doing does affect them. What they are doing is going to be taught to my children as being something normal and wholesome. What they are doing will eventually be forced on the churches as well. So, it affects everyone.


#18

[quote="seattle99, post:9, topic:285449"]
Do you also tell every fat person you see that they are committing the sin of gluttony?

Tell me, where do you see "every fat person" screaming about civil rights and equality for acceptance of gluttony???

[/quote]

Actually, many "fat acceptance"-type groups exist (I hate to use that word and categorize anyone like that, but I do so because I'm following the word you use) in order to promote "fat" people in the media and shine a more positive light on being so-called "fat" so that they will not be discriminated against.


#19

[quote="Charlemagne_II, post:11, topic:285449"]
jm

*Unless you think the first amendment should just be ignored, and lets make this a tyrannical Catholic theocracy. *

This is not strictly speaking a position of Catholics only. I know Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and others who are horrified by sodomy and the idiotic respect it has gained in America. Cut the cr-p about Catholic theocracy. There is more atheocracy in America than theocracy. Or hadn't you noticed? :rolleyes:

[/quote]

When two women are in love, married, and having sex together... is that "sodomy" as well?
Most people here talk about two men together and forget about the women, so...


#20

[quote="Dymphna82, post:17, topic:285449"]
Believe it or not, my personal opinions can differ from God's opinion. I will still support God's opinion above my own.

[/quote]

Sure. But some people, believe it or not, actually do not think your god exists. I am one of them. So when you say your god hates homosexual acts, I think that statement, and your belief in a god that makes it, are all just your opinion.

[quote="Dymphna82, post:17, topic:285449"]
If they're comfortable with it, then they don't need to get married then.

[/quote]

Yes, marriage should be defined by religion in a country that supposedly respects all religions........ Give me a universally acceptable reason why your definition, which is based on your religion, should be forced as the definition for everybody in this country, of every religion.

[quote="Dymphna82, post:17, topic:285449"]
What they are doing does affect them. What they are doing is going to be taught to my children as being something normal and wholesome. What they are doing will eventually be forced on the churches as well. So, it affects everyone.

[/quote]

And it should be such a horrifying thought that your children will be taught to respect harmless freedoms that don't affect them. You can teach your child all the hate of gays you want to, nobody is going to stop you.

And tell me why it will eventually be forced on the churches. That's a pessimistic viewpoint. I'm an atheist who would be appalled if that happened, because I am a firm believer in the first amendment and what it stands for.


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