Homosexuality


#1

Homosexual relationships and morals

Hello, my name is Nathan, and I am a bisexual. I consider myself to be a good Catholic person too. I am new to the forums, and would like to talk to you about my orientation. Before I start, I would like to make a few things clear. First of all, I am not here to turn you gay, I just want to have a discussion with fellow people in the Lord, and I would like for everyone here to respect the opinions of other posters. Finally I would like to make it clear that I Have never been intimate with another man or woman, as I am not married, and believe in remaining a virgin until marriage. All I ask of you today is to listen to my side of these issues.
For my first point of discussion I would like to explain what it means to be a homosexual. Homosexual people are not by nature immoral people. While an alarming number of Homosexual people are Sexually immoral, so are many heterosexuals. I for example have never exchanged in physical intimacy with someone of any gender. Because I am bisexual, I feel equal attraction to both genders. Just as a heterosexual person may choose not to act on their urges, I have chosen not to act on mine. Although I choose not to be intimate, I cannot choose if I am attracted to other people. I choose not to be intimate however, not because I wish for a life of celibacy, but because I wish to be chaste. To me chastity doesn’t mean never being intimate, but it would mean that I would wait until I am in a marriage or domestic union with my partner, and having having intimacy be a reflection of my love. Just as many heterosexual Catholics are chaste, I too am chaste.
My second thing I would like to talk about is natural law. To many people sex between people of the same gender is considered to go against Gods design for humans. To me if this were true, then God wouldn’t have made so many of his children as non-heterosexual people. I was born like this, I didn’t choose this for myself. God made me just the way I am. And God loves me just the way I am. There is no way to cure me, because I’m not sick. I am natural, and just as God intended for me to be. If the person I love is another man, I may not be able to have a child of my own. But I could still adopt. I have prayed to God, and asked him if I was a bad person, and he has made it clear that I can still be a good person. Jesus loves me no matter what.
I suppose the last thing I would like to share two passages from the New American Standard Bible.

“Then Jonathan gave his weapons to his lad and said to him, “Go, bring them to the city.” 41 When the lad was gone, David rose from the south side and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed three times. And they kissed each other and wept together, but David wept the more.”-1 Samuel 20:41

“I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; 
You have been very pleasant to me. 
Your love to me was more wonderful 
Than the love of women.”-2 Samuel 1:26

                                         Thank you, and God bless.

#2

Garden of Eden. God creates one MAN. God creates one WOMAN.


#3

Here's what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about homosexuality. Hopefully these excerpts can give you a deeper understanding of what the Catholic Church believes.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms throughout the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which present homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity [Gen. 19:1-29, Rom. 1:24-27, 1 Cor. 6:10, 1Tim. 1:10], tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered [Persona Humana 8]. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


#4

So this big large claim that your not hear to turn people gay or support homosexual acts only to put up the the two biggest quotes from the bible that radical homosexuals use to make important people from the bible out as homosexuals.

...cute little ploy


#5

[quote="Nathan_Cheiman, post:1, topic:244280"]

To me if this were true, then God wouldn’t have made so many of his children as non-heterosexual people. I was born like this, I didn’t choose this for myself. God made me just the way I am. And God loves me just the way I am. There is no way to cure me, because I’m not sick. I am natural, and just as God intended for me to be.

[/quote]

We all have our crosses to carry.

I'm heterosexual, I dedicated myself to the vocation of marriage and did everything I was supposed to do, cherishing my wife and supporting her in all things, sharing everything I had.

She chose to leave me and our children.

Am I to say that if God wanted marriage to be permanent, then he wouldn't have made so many of his children flawed in terms of commitment to marriage and their ability to remain faithful?

I was born with the ability and desire to be married, and follow this vocation. And God loves me just the way I am. There is no way to cure me, because I’m not sick. I am natural, and just as God intended for me to be.

Yet he made me this way knowing that I would marry a woman who would leave. Knowing that I would be left with the desire for the vocation of marriage, but unable to fulfill it through no fault of my own. He knew how much pain I would endure due to things beyond my control. Expecting me, denied the benefits of my vocation, to continue to uphold it's obligations in terms of chastity and raising my children. In the faith, alone, and despite the example their mother is providing.

We all have our crosses to carry. It would be easy for me to rationalize not carrying mine, try to justify seeking another woman. But that goes against God's direction. So, I'm sorry you bear the cross and burden of homosexual yearnings and will pray for you.


#6

Thank you everyone for your posts. I very much appreciate that you took the time to respond to me. I very much appreciate being able to hear what other Catholics have to say about these issues.


#7

[quote="Nathan_Cheiman, post:1, topic:244280"]
Homosexual relationships and morals

“Then Jonathan gave his weapons to his lad and said to him, “Go, bring them to the city.” 41 When the lad was gone, David rose from the south side and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed three times. And they kissed each other and wept together, but David wept the more.”-1 Samuel 20:41

“I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; 
You have been very pleasant to me. 
Your love to me was more wonderful 
Than the love of women.”-2 Samuel 1:26

                                         Thank you, and God bless.

[/quote]

I'm sorry but how do you get anything gay out of that?
Not my place to judge-but I'm glad you're giving it this much thought. Perhaps you could ask a Priest to explain the meaning of these verses.


#8

I agree with a lot of what you said. You are love by God just as your are, without a doubt. My girlfriend is bisexual so please know that I am sensitive to this issue.

Having said that, the rates of high risk behavior and suicide among homosexual and bisexual individuals are so high that it indicates it may be a psychological disorder. Some would say this is due to rejection from society and family; however, my understanding is that these behaviors are common among individuals who have been fully accepted by family, community, etc. I have suffered from clinical depression since I was 17. This is how God made me but it is not necessarily a good thing. That is not to say that homosexuals or bisexuals are in any way bad. Same sex attraction is not and can not be evil. Sins against chastity are.

Also, homosexuality (the act, not the tendency) is unnatural as it does not perpetuate our species. It may seem like semantics but I don't think it really is.

Brother, I truly feel that I don't hold a prejudice against anyone with same sex attraction. I have committed sins against chastity just as great as anyone living an active homosexual lifestyle as I have had sex outside of marriage. I do not understand how many Christians view homosexuality as some sort of a greater sin. There is really no difference between a male couple having sex and a male and female couple having sex (outside of marriage). The offense is equal, prejudice leads people to believe that the offense is greater. In fact, culpability may be lessened if homosexuality is in fact rooted in some type of psychological disorder.


#9

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:4, topic:244280"]
So this big large claim that your not hear to turn people gay or support homosexual acts only to put up the the two biggest quotes from the bible that radical homosexuals use to make important people from the bible out as homosexuals.

...cute little ploy

[/quote]

Yes, I find this repugnant. It is common among homosexuals to look for things in the Bible to counteract what God really said about the perversion.

I know you were being sarcastic, but this is in no way "cute." It is disgusting. David and Jonathan were not homosexual lovers, as implied by the quotes.


#10

Christ said to "people the Earth" which is impossible to do if you are not married to someone of the opposite sex. The Catholic Church has nothing against homosexuals: it is any sexual act between two people of the same sex that is a mortal sin because it goes against the dogma of the Catholic Church-- all seed must be used to create life. The seed needs to end up where it was intended to go.

I will pray for you.


#11

Christ said to "people the Earth" which is impossible to do if you are not married to someone of the opposite sex. The Catholic Church has nothing against homosexuals: it is any sexual act between two people of the same sex that is a mortal sin because it goes against the dogma of the Catholic Church-- all seed must be used to create life. The seed needs to end up where it was intended to go.

I will pray for you.


#12

Life… God’s gift to the world. The theology of life, that you will find in the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church celebrates everything wonderful about this positive force, given to us from God. Despite the fact that the world highlights all the “don’t do’s” of our Church’s teaching and belief system, if you look at it from a Catholic perspective, what you will find instead is a resounding YES to life. That is the theology of life.

So who are we to interfere with this wonderful power gifted to us from God - He allows us to become co-creators through the sacrament of marriage, and we are given this amazing privilege and responsibility to bring into the world and nurture an eternal soul. Wow. Marriage, the blessed basis for this procreative and unitive journey is the seed of society - not a vocation for all of course, but still an essential part of society.

Unfortunately, we are humans and often fail and try to interfere with this wonderfully positive theology of life. I have in the past, before my re-conversion, which I deeply regret now. Who was I to interfere with God’s great plan? And the practice of homosexuality, like contraception, like IVF, like abortion - these are all anti-life practices.

And so I say to you again, who are we to interfere with God’s great plan for us? You can search for verses in the Bible all you like - the Jehovah’s Witnesses have managed to create a whole religion from stretching the meaning of Biblical verses - but the Truth is still as clear as day for those who are willing to accept it. Anything else is man’s attempt to justify his sins, and eat the forbidden fruit.


#13

CatholicZ,

You quoted the first edition. The second edition has changed a bit.


#14

If I were you, since you are bisexual, I would guard myself and my heart very closely when it came to my relationships with other men and seek ONLY the romantic comPany of women. I would not even give myself a chance to fall for another man. You have a choice here.


#15

To the OP, you are right, God does love you and you can be a good person. But you can NOT sin without consequences. You will answer for them, and I hope it is here on earth before it is too late and you are doomed to hell.

To be honest, I don’t think you want a discussion half as much as you are hoping someone will approve of your behaviour so you can sin without feeling guilty. And I hate to break it to you, we all have a conscious. And no matter how many people say ‘It is OK to sin’, your inner voice will NOT stop nagging you

As for God creating you that way… Some people are born alcoholics. God does NOT say ‘Since I created you an alcoholic, drink as much as you wish, it is OK that your kids are starving because you bought beer instead of groceries.’ God says ‘I know I gave you a cross t bear, come to me and you will have the strenght to not drink’

As for having children. God purposely made the process of creating children to require one man and one woman because kids NEED one man and one woman to bring them up. Homosexuals bringing up children is emotionally damaging

CM


#16

[quote="Nathan_Cheiman, post:1, topic:244280"]
To me if this were true, then God wouldn’t have made so many of his children as non-heterosexual people. I was born like this, I didn’t choose this for myself. God made me just the way I am. And God loves me just the way I am.

[/quote]

Jesus said to them in reply, "You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven." Matt. 22:29-30 Obviously, since we those of us who hope to gain eternal life will need to learn to "live like the angels in Heaven", it doesn't matter much if you're heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual.

What matters is only that you are faithful. For if God meant you to use every natural part of yourself even if it lead you to sin, why would the Lord have said this: "Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna." Matt 18:7-9 Are we supposed to literally tear our eyes out? No. Then neither should you "tear out" your bisexuality. You do have to control it, not deify it simply because you were born with it. Our bodies are meant to serve the wisdom of Heaven, not the other way around.

Do you know how many people are born sociopaths? That is, do you know how many people do not have the psychological aptitude to feel empathetic emotions? Did you know that people who do not have an emotional component to their consciences are still bound to follow moral law, even though they feel no affection for their fellow creatures, whether human or animal?

God loves sociopaths. God wants to make saints of sociopaths. A sociopath is capable of being a person of upright moral character. But there is nothing you will find in the Bible or anyone else's description of natural law that says that a saint can be made of someone who acts on the urges that are natural to a sociopath.

The truth is, we all have natural impulses that would be our ruin if we gave into them. Some are stronger, some are weaker, but unless we are insane or incapable of rational decision-making, none remove our culpability entirely when we choose to sin. The difficulties inherent in our make-up is not an excuse. It is usually the flip-side of a virtue, yes. That virtue, though, is meant to be realized by the taming of the vice that wants to come along with it. In our natural state, the two always come together. Under the control of God, the natural state is pruned and tended so to leave the fruit of virtue and weed out the vice. We can't do it ourselves, but God can.


#17

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