Homosexuals lose Get out of Jail card...


#1

With all the talk of equal rights and civil rights I found this disturbing...

afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147501429

According to National Review Online, there may be a whole lot of homosexuals who just got an unpleasant surprise. With the repeal of the law prohibiting homosexual service in the United States military, they just lost their “get out of jail free” card.

According to the Pentagon, “approximately 85% of discharges for homosexual conduct have been made on the basis of statements by the Service member.”

Marriage, adoption, all the rights that everyone has and then opt out of the service that all those that fought for those rights and continue to serve.


#2

our pretty-in-pink wannabe soldiers…our would-be limp-wristed enlistees…just to go back home to Momma…You’re stuck with us now, Nancy-boy…can’t get enough action in the barracks…ogling male soldiers in the shower

Is this the sort of stuff you read on a regular basis, Coptic? Written by Brian Fischer who is Director of Issues Analysis for the American Family Association.

He has some strange ideas: '"Nazi Germany became the horror that it was because it rejected both Christianity and its clear teaching about human sexuality. These are mistakes no sane culture should ever make again."

What a jerk...


#3

[quote="Bradski, post:2, topic:302622"]
our pretty-in-pink wannabe soldiers…our would-be limp-wristed enlistees…just to go back home to Momma…You’re stuck with us now, Nancy-boy…can’t get enough action in the barracks…ogling male soldiers in the shower

Is this the sort of stuff you read on a regular basis, Coptic?

[/quote]

Brad,

I read between the lines. The fact is that homosexuals self reported to get out of the military.


#4

[quote="CopticChristian, post:3, topic:302622"]
I read between the lines. The fact is that homosexuals self reported to get out of the military.

[/quote]

No, it is not a fact.

Perhaps you should read what it says rather than want you want it to say. The report simply says that discharges were made on the basis of statements by the soldiers. It does not say that gay soldiers self-reported to get out of the army.

I sincerely hope you don't consider this guy's anti-homosexual ramblings as something of worth. Otherwise you may end up agreeing to statements such as this:

Homosexuality gave us Adolph Hitler, and homosexuals in the military gave us the Brown Shirts, the Nazi war machine and six million dead Jews. afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147494882

That's a take on the Second World War that I hadn't heard before.


#5

[quote="Bradski, post:2, topic:302622"]
our pretty-in-pink wannabe soldiers…our would-be limp-wristed enlistees…just to go back home to Momma…You’re stuck with us now, Nancy-boy…can’t get enough action in the barracks…ogling male soldiers in the shower
...]
Written by Brian Fischer who is Director of Issues Analysis for the American Family Association.

[/quote]

That's just sickening. It's people like that who make Christians look bad. I pray that the man who said it isn't Catholic.

Likewise, if this is what someone with a director's level position at the American Family Association says, I'd have a hard time taking anything else they say seriously.

It also sickens me that this redneck stereotype of masculinity is supposed to be what differentiates people without SSA from those with SSA.


#6

[quote="Bradski, post:4, topic:302622"]
No, it is not a fact.

[/quote]

Yes, it is a fact. One of the guys in my platoon in Basic Training did this and so did one of the members of my platoon at Ft. Campbell. So yes, it does happen, and has for a long time.


#7

[quote="Bradski, post:4, topic:302622"]
No, it is not a fact.

Perhaps you should read what it says rather than want you want it to say. The report simply says that discharges were made on the basis of statements by the soldiers. It does not say that gay soldiers self-reported to get out of the army.

I sincerely hope you don't consider this guy's anti-homosexual ramblings as something of worth. Otherwise you may end up agreeing to statements such as this:

Homosexuality gave us Adolph Hitler, and homosexuals in the military gave us the Brown Shirts, the Nazi war machine and six million dead Jews. afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147494882

That's a take on the Second World War that I hadn't heard before.

[/quote]

Brad,

I did not quote or suggest anything about the ramblings. I find that distasteful. I pointed out what I thought was relevant. You pointed out what you found distasteful. If I had pointed out and highlighted the distasteful portions then you would have a case for your belief. Lets agree that the distaste is as is and the issue is as stated concerning self reporting.


#8

I learned 2 things from this:

  1. The military is now a jail.
  2. Only homosexuals would self-report as homosexual in order to avoid military service.

:rolleyes:


#9

[quote="jwinch2, post:6, topic:302622"]
Yes, it is a fact. One of the guys in my platoon in Basic Training did this and so did one of the members of my platoon at Ft. Campbell. So yes, it does happen, and has for a long time.

[/quote]

I agree. I did 10 years in the US Navy, and starting in bootcamp, we lost at least 10% of the company I was in when they turned themselves in as being gay.
At one point I was temporarily assigned to the personnel office of a major Naval Base where I was assigned to type out the discharges of men being kicked out of the Navy for being gay. In the month I was there, there was a major investigation and scandal in which a homosexual ring was broken up and over 20 men got undesirable discharges after being court martialed for being gay
Since the anti-war movement of the late 1960's and '70s, the Undesirable discharge has not had the negative effect upon an individual in civilian life as it once had because noone in business cares what the sexuality of their employees is any more. The gays have convinced everyone that they are like everyone else.:eek::eek::eek:


#10

[quote="CopticChristian, post:7, topic:302622"]
I pointed out what I thought was relevant.

[/quote]

Where you get the information that you post is relevant.

I believe it’s worth checking the source and considering how trustworthy the information is likely to be. I think that if the information comes from a person who blames the holocaust on homosexuality, it calls into doubt the veracity of anything else he might be likely to say (and there’s plenty more weird and wonderful comments from the good Mr. Fischer. I’ll post some more if you like).

I’ve just been reading his blog and I feel like I need a shower. The man is a buffoon and as untrustworthy as they come.


#11

[quote="SgtSchultz, post:5, topic:302622"]
That's just sickening. It's people like that who make Christians look bad. I pray that the man who said it isn't Catholic.

Likewise, if this is what someone with a director's level position at the American Family Association says, I'd have a hard time taking anything else they say seriously.

It also sickens me that this redneck stereotype of masculinity is supposed to be what differentiates people without SSA from those with SSA.

[/quote]

Absolutely.

I mean, I'm as Catholic as they come, and have even got the stick on more than one occasion for my "old-fashioned" views on the morality of homosexual acts.

But a homosexual orientation is a cross that some men and women have to carry, just as others among us carry a tendency towards alcoholism, violence, or even just a short temper. (Guilty of the last one.)

While the Lord's prayer says "Lead us not into temptation", it does not add, "and let us crow uncharitably over those who give in to it."

And as for the author's view of masculinity, I find it repulsive. I suppose this guy would also consider monks, scholars and martyrs "unmanly" and "sissies", just because they aren't "Action Men". Give me a break.

Finally, on the Hitler issue - pure stupidity. So what if Hitler performed homosexual acts? Stalin and Mao were as heterosexual as they come (the latter being especially notorious), and Karl Marx was reportedly an affectionate husband - so is a normal, healthy heterosexual orientation responsible for Communism, then? :D

Let's stick to authentic Catholic teaching. Hate the sin, by all means, but don't be too quick to dismiss the sinner as beyond hope, just because that makes you feel good. Doing so reveals more about your own insecurities and moral failings than about the genuine evils of homosexual practice, which must be fought using a better way. :)


#12

[quote="Bradski, post:10, topic:302622"]
Where you get the information that you post is relevant.

I believe it’s worth checking the source and considering how trustworthy the information is likely to be. I think that if the information comes from a person who blames the holocaust on homosexuality, it calls into doubt the veracity of anything else he might be likely to say (and there’s plenty more weird and wonderful comments from the good Mr. Fischer. I’ll post some more if you like).

I’ve just been reading his blog and I feel like I need a shower. The man is a buffoon and as untrustworthy as they come.

[/quote]

Brad,

Fischer used the National Review for the information found here..

nationalreview.com/blogs/print/255724

Charles Moskos, the late military sociologist who drafted the DADT language, went back to study discharges under the policy. He found that about 80 percent were voluntary, meaning they had been initiated by the soldier.

In other words, a guy or girl had gone to his or her CO and said something to the effect of, “You know, I’m gay.” This earned the serviceperson an honorable discharge — and maybe a relatively painless end to what might have been an inconvenient service contract.

In a study a few months ago, the Pentagon affirmed Moskos’s research, finding that “approximately 85% of discharges for homosexual conduct have been made on the basis of statements by the Service member.” It also noted that “approximately one quarter of these discharges have occurred in the first four months of a Service member’s service,” which would seem to back up the notion that DADT was widely used as way to get out of contracts.

Fischer is an Evangelical Creationist but the reference to the DADT issue is from National Review...


#13

What a sickening article. I mean, wow. That's up there with holocaust denier sites in level of hate and belligerence.

Also, you know it was pretty common for straight people to claim to be gay to get out of the military, and many of those self-reporters probably were straight. Troops who are in trouble or facing deployment used to do that for the honorable discharge.

Getting rid of DADT closed that loophole for everyone and allows gay people to serve their country. Win-win situation.


#14

[quote="BlueEyedLady, post:13, topic:302622"]

What a sickening article. I mean, wow. That's up there with holocaust denier sites in level of hate and belligerence.

Also, you know it was pretty common for straight people to claim to be gay to get out of the military, and many of those self-reporters probably were straight. Troops who are in trouble or facing deployment used to do that for the honorable discharge.

Getting rid of DADT closed that loophole for everyone and allows gay people to serve their country. Win-win situation./

QUOTE]

Blue,

This is agreed, making special accomodations makes no sense. No special rights, no special priveleges, gays can serve the country and they have all the rights and priveleges everyone else has. No more special accomodations anywhere for anything..:thumbsup:

[/quote]


#15

[quote="jwinch2, post:6, topic:302622"]
Yes, it is a fact. One of the guys in my platoon in Basic Training did this and so did one of the members of my platoon at Ft. Campbell. So yes, it does happen, and has for a long time.

[/quote]

I considered it since conscientious objectors wind up in prison more than they do getting discharged but I didn't feel good thinking about having to lie my way out. It's an "all volunteer army" but when you sign your life away at 17 filled with bogus promises and realize that it's all a lie and you want out before it takes your humanity, THEEEN there's a problem. I fought tooth and nail to get out of the army and praise God I was one of the few victors who fought my way out and won. The military wonders why there are so many suicides. If they let people out when they saw through the bs then there wouldn't be an epidemic of suicide u_u


#16

[quote="CopticChristian, post:12, topic:302622"]
Brad,

Fischer used the National Review for the information found here..

nationalreview.com/blogs/print/255724

Fischer is an Evangelical Creationist but the reference to the DADT issue is from National Review...

[/quote]

have to ask ,why not use the national review link ?:confused:


#17

[quote="april32010, post:16, topic:302622"]
have to ask ,why not use the national review link ?:confused:

[/quote]

The point, exactly. :thumbsup:

There is a genuine issue and a cause for concern here. But why not use a reputable source and hard data, rather than the dubious rantings of a man whose grasp on reality seem tenuous?

Doing the latter only makes us look weak and insecure, and opens us up to attacks rather than going straight to the heart of the matter. :shrug:


#18

[quote="CopticChristian, post:14, topic:302622"]

Wow, it takes a lot of gall to post such a disturbing and hateful article and then make the claim that kicking gays out of the military, ending their careers and damaging their lives was providing a "special accommodation".
[/quote]


#19

I wonder if he provides reparative therapy. . . . I understand that Evangelical Creationists types can make use of this type of stuff. . . .


#20

[quote="ringil, post:19, topic:302622"]
I wonder if he provides reparative therapy. . . . I understand that Evangelical Creationists types can make use of this type of stuff. . . .

[/quote]

Ringil,

If Fischer is a Pastor and is interested he can take the online class and knowing Squat or Jack may not matter.


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