Honestly, What is this.... Paul VI and black mass at his coronation?


#1

Ok, I’m just asking because I have no idea what to think about this.

The topic is NOT sedevacantism. Don’t nobody bring that up!!

The topic is…is the following a false, inaccurate, or otherwise baseless accusation:

Malachi Martin, an intimate friend of Paul VI writes in two of his books that on the eve of the coronation of Paul VI a satanic black mass was celebrated in St. Peter’s.

You can find information on that online, but the above is from an email to me. That was the only relevant part of the email.

Personally, I don’t believe it. But it came from somewhere. I’m not all worked up about it. Maybe there was (whatever a “black mass” is) one, that doesn’t mean the good Pope had anything to do with it.

One source I found read like a fictional novel, in fact, it says it is:
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This work, fifteen years in the making, is a work of fiction that replicates the reality of today in many ways.

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So anybody heard about this and have any comments?
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#2

[quote=Reformed Rob]Ok, I’m just asking because I have no idea what to think about this.

The topic is NOT sedevacantism. Don’t nobody bring that up!!

The topic is…is the following a false, inaccurate, or otherwise baseless accusation:

You can find information on that online, but the above is from an email to me. That was the only relevant part of the email.

Personally, I don’t believe it. But it came from somewhere. I’m not all worked up about it. Maybe there was (whatever a “black mass” is) one, that doesn’t mean the good Pope had anything to do with it.

One source I found read like a fictional novel, in fact, it says it is:
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][font=Arial][size=2]

So anybody heard about this and have any comments?
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[/quote]

How could anybody think this rubbish could have even a grain of truth in it!!! It is total fiction and lies spread by anti-Catholics.


#3

Fr. Malachi Martin was a defrocked Roman Catholic priest who sold out the priesthood to make money writing fiction (he had a vow of poverty). He was often on conspiracy related talk shows such as Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell hawking his books (nothing against C2C, in fact I listen to it sometimes and sometimes it’s good for a laugh). Take what he has written with a grain of salt. I hope he repented before his death which was not too long ago.

Read this excerpt from his Wikipedia entry:

The authenticity of Malachi Martin’s writings and viewpoints was seriously called into question by the 2002 book Clerical Error by former Vatican Time Magazine correspondent Kaiser. In his autobiographical book (as above) Kaiser accuses Martin of carrying on an extramarital affair with his wife and for being a notorious womanizer during his time in Rome, as well as a liar and fantasist.


#4

What can you say…he’s dead…St.Peter’s is still standing…and the Catholic Church is still growing. I guess his magic didn’t work, huh?


#5

The main fictional account fo this is the openeing to Martin Malachi’s book Windswept House. It is an excellent novel, and Fr. Malachi claims much of it to be based on fact, including the black mass. I do not know of any independent verification of it, other than Fr. Malachi’s statements (he has verified in interviews, including with Art Bell).

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com


#6

Martin was not “de-frocked” by the Church.
He asked to be dispensed from his priestly ministry and was granted it. I too have questioned some of Martin’s claims cuz they seem so far fetched. In one book (Keys of This Blood), he said that Martin Luther belonged to a Secret Society and that Luther practiced Occult Rites. Wanting documentation, I wrote to Malachi Martin. He wrote me back a very friendly and polite letter reiterating what he had said, but did not provide me any documentation. I still have the letter somewhere…

Jaypeeto3


#7

I dont know how many times this has been discussed on this site but Fr. Martin was never defrocked. He was relieved of some of his vows as a Jesuit by Paul VI but remained a priest. The reason why he wanted to be independent from his post VII Jesuit superiors in order to write is clearly evident by the demise of the Jesuit order over the last 45 years.

Seriously, I believe the above post was nothing more than another bait attempt to foster friction between those of us who know Fr. Martin to be a treasure of the Faith and those who desire to attack his “agenda.” The agenda being criticism of Modernism, homosexual priests, deplorable bishops, and transgressions of the Faith post Vat II ect.

For those of us around here more than a few days, we have seen this form of baiting on Catholic Answers and elsewhere. It offers no useful purpose but divisiveness, offers no new information and is counterproductive.


#8

[quote=Reformed Rob]Ok, I’m just asking because I have no idea what to think about this.

The topic is NOT sedevacantism. Don’t nobody bring that up!!

The topic is…is the following a false, inaccurate, or otherwise baseless accusation:

You can find information on that online, but the above is from an email to me. That was the only relevant part of the email.

Personally, I don’t believe it. But it came from somewhere. I’m not all worked up about it. Maybe there was (whatever a “black mass” is) one, that doesn’t mean the good Pope had anything to do with it.

One source I found read like a fictional novel, in fact, it says it is:
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][font=Arial][size=2]

So anybody heard about this and have any comments?
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[/quote]

The problem with those spreading “half stories” is that they often get the “back half” of the horse – Martin never contended that Paul VI had a thing to do with it. He simply placed the time and date of it via the pope’s accession.


#9

[quote=Semper Fi]Fr. Malachi Martin was a defrocked Roman Catholic priest who sold out the priesthood to make money writing fiction (he had a vow of poverty)… I hope he repented before his death which was not too long ago.

…Take what he has written with a grain of salt…

[/quote]

Proof that a “little knowledge” is indeed a dangerous thing. Your information is incorrect (btw Wikipedia is not a reliable source for much) and I hope we all get an opportunity to repent before our death, that includes those who spread false rumors.

[quote=Semper Fi].Take what he has written with a grain of salt…
[/quote]

I’d be more worried about those who haven’t read it and yet comment

Multi previous threads about Malachi Martin:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=8262&highlight=martin

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=88376&highlight=martin

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=74186&highlight=martin

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=60595&highlight=martin

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=37208&highlight=martin

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=21217&highlight=martin


#10

As to the dual Black Mass, described within the first chapter of Windswept House, we now know that it really took place, due to the existance of a living eyewitness who has been judged to be sane under voluntary psychiatric examination & passing multiple polygraph tests. Black Masses were carried out, by a clerical coven (of former priests and Bishops) in South Carolina, such rituals involved sacrifice, ritualized giving of pain, and ritual repeated rape.

If anyone denies the reality of ritual satanic abuse -inside or outside the Catholic church - you most certainly have never had the cousel of a good traditional priest. Nor have you been reading newspaper over the last 20 years. There have been scores of very serious accusations - some proven as quite real - which have come out in the context of the clerical sex abuse scandals.

Throughout the history of the Church, there have been priests who have practiced the Black arts, who have supplied consecrated hosts for Black Masses, and participated in them/conducted them. These include prelates, bishops, and even Cardinals over the centuries. We know this from history - be the source ecclesial or secular. From the results of Canon Law trials, and from civil judicial dockets.


#11

[quote=Fast_ed75]I dont know how many times this has been discussed on this site but Fr. Martin was never defrocked. He was relieved of some of his vows as a Jesuit by Paul VI but remained a priest. The reason why he wanted to be independent from his post VII Jesuit superiors in order to write is clearly evident by the demise of the Jesuit order over the last 45 years.

Seriously, I believe the above post was nothing more than another bait attempt to foster friction between those of us who know Fr. Martin to be a treasure of the Faith and those who desire to attack his “agenda.” The agenda being criticism of Modernism, homosexual priests, deplorable bishops, and transgressions of the Faith post Vat II ect.

For those of us around here more than a few days, we have seen this form of baiting on Catholic Answers and elsewhere. It offers no useful purpose but divisiveness, offers no new information and is counterproductive.
[/quote]

You are using red herrings and have not backed up any of your assertions. Provide documention other than Wikipedia, and if you do use Wikipedia make sure it has another source other than itself to back up your claims. Also, the church has always had “homosexual priests”, except for maybe in the very early days of the church, most of the priests implicated in these disgusting crimes were in fact ordained prior to Vatican II. Why do you think that some states are trying to draw up laws which will allow people to sue the church due to the statute of limitations? I have never read any of that stuff in any of Malachi Martin’s novels claiming that Vatican II was responsible for his leaving the priesthood. By the way, there have always been “horrible bishops”. Our first pope, Saint Peter, denied Christ three times.


#12

Father (and Doctor, mind you) Malachi Martin is an honorable man who was sincere in his beliefs and actions.

To say something such as “I hope he repented before his death” is just arrogant and low.


#13

Thanks for the discussion.

I didn’t expect this thread to turn into a thread about Malachi Martin. I meant it to be about the alleged “black mass” at St. Peters, and what if anything the cardinals or Pope or whoever had to do with it, condemning it, knowing about it or not, that kind of stuff.

But, I’m just the OP, so thanks for the discussion, I’m smarter (or more confused?) for it, and just glad it didn’t die the slow death of a lost thread immediately

I’m open to believing the truth. However, I’m not leaning towards believing that Pope Paul VI was a satanist, modernist, or whatever. I’ve read enough of his writings to know better. Though, I should read more…


#14

I own most of Fr. Martin’s taped interviews. He never suggested that Paul VI was involved in satanic activity. Essentially, Fr. Martin states he was overrun by the “superforce” that emerged in the Vatican during that time.

As to the satanic ritual abuse in the Catholic Church, Fr. Martin is not the only one who knows something of substance of it. He merely chose to be brave enough to expose it to the light of day. Criticism of him for doing that is akin to criticism of those who worked to uncover the sex scandals which are in all the papers. The filth had to be aired out, for any good to be done.
As to the bishops involved in the South carolina coven, a “bloodline” of evil prelates can be readily traced. I refer to a line of episcopal sucession, which stretches to many states in the US. Wherever it has spread its tentacles the results are bad, apostate bishops. These are men who as false shepherds, are actively working and networking to destroy the faith in the US by slow, planned degrees. And they protect and promote men who are like minded.

Were I to list all the names (a very big list!) there would be very few surprises. Anyone with enough patience to do the work, can readily figure this out for themselves. The basic informational tools are on the net.

This is part & parcel of the “Superforce” of which Martin wrote about.


#15

[quote=Desert_82]As to the dual Black Mass, described within the first chapter of Windswept House, we now know that it really took place, due to the existance of a living eyewitness who has been judged to be sane under voluntary psychiatric examination & passing multiple polygraph tests. Black Masses were carried out, by a clerical coven (of former priests and Bishops) in South Carolina, such rituals involved sacrifice, ritualized giving of pain, and ritual repeated rape.

If anyone denies the reality of ritual satanic abuse -inside or outside the Catholic church - you most certainly have never had the cousel of a good traditional priest. Nor have you been reading newspaper over the last 20 years. There have been scores of very serious accusations - some proven as quite real - which have come out in the context of the clerical sex abuse scandals.

Throughout the history of the Church, there have been priests who have practiced the Black arts, who have supplied consecrated hosts for Black Masses, and participated in them/conducted them. These include prelates, bishops, and even Cardinals over the centuries. We know this from history - be the source ecclesial or secular. From the results of Canon Law trials, and from civil judicial dockets.
[/quote]

Actually, no, I haven’t been reading the newspapers for the last 20 years. I’m not yet 18, so, I couldn’t have. Do you have any documentation/support for these that you can present to these boards? (Besides the Fr. Martin book, of course.)


#16

[quote=Desert_82]As to the dual Black Mass, described within the first chapter of Windswept House, we now know that it really took place, due to the existance of a living eyewitness who has been judged to be sane under voluntary psychiatric examination & passing multiple polygraph tests. Black Masses were carried out, by a clerical coven (of former priests and Bishops) in South Carolina, such rituals involved sacrifice, ritualized giving of pain, and ritual repeated rape.

If anyone denies the reality of ritual satanic abuse -inside or outside the Catholic church - you most certainly have never had the cousel of a good traditional priest. Nor have you been reading newspaper over the last 20 years. There have been scores of very serious accusations - some proven as quite real - which have come out in the context of the clerical sex abuse scandals.

Throughout the history of the Church, there have been priests who have practiced the Black arts, who have supplied consecrated hosts for Black Masses, and participated in them/conducted them. These include prelates, bishops, and even Cardinals over the centuries. We know this from history - be the source ecclesial or secular. From the results of Canon Law trials, and from civil judicial dockets.
[/quote]

Could yuou provide at least one true source to back your statements? Never heard of this and I’ve read quite a few papers in the past twenty years. I’ve also been blessed to be in many Carmelite parishes, one with an official exorcist. Some documentation please?


#17

Just so you know, I’m watching this thread. Please keep it civil, and maybe I’ve gotten about as much of an answer to the main question as I’m going to…? Which is fine, you’ve been very helpful, thank you.

Hey Fast Ed, what is this “Superforce” you’re talking about? Is it discussed in the book “Unicorn in the Sanctuary?” Yet another book I’ve got that I need to just read.


#18

[quote=Fast_ed75]I own most of Fr. Martin’s taped interviews. He never suggested that Paul VI was involved in satanic activity. Essentially, Fr. Martin states he was overrun by the “superforce” that emerged in the Vatican during that time.

As to the satanic ritual abuse in the Catholic Church, Fr. Martin is not the only one who knows something of substance of it. He merely chose to be brave enough to expose it to the light of day. Criticism of him for doing that is akin to criticism of those who worked to uncover the sex scandals which are in all the papers. The filth had to be aired out, for any good to be done.
As to the bishops involved in the South carolina coven, a “bloodline” of evil prelates can be readily traced. I refer to a line of episcopal sucession, which stretches to many states in the US. Wherever it has spread its tentacles the results are bad, apostate bishops. These are men who as false shepherds, are actively working and networking to destroy the faith in the US by slow, planned degrees. And they protect and promote men who are like minded.

Were I to list all the names (a very big list!) there would be very few surprises. Anyone with enough patience to do the work, can readily figure this out for themselves. The basic informational tools are on the net.

This is part & parcel of the “Superforce” of which Martin wrote about.
[/quote]

Now this is really starting to sound like Art Bell and the type of conspiracy theorists out there.

The pope was overrun by the “superforce”, so much for the Gates of Hell not prevailing.


#19

[quote=ByzCath]Now this is really starting to sound like Art Bell and the type of conspiracy theorists out there.

The pope was overrun by the “superforce”, so much for the Gates of Hell not prevailing.
[/quote]

ByzCath,

Isn’t the “Gates of Hell” understood to be bad teaching that won’t infect and take over the Papacy? Cut and dry, not much more to that. Did that happen to Paul VI? You’d say “no” I guess, so no, the “gates of hell” didn’t prevail. A person can legitimitally (sp?) believe that a Pope was over run by the Green Goblin or the North Korean govt. if indeed such a thing were to happen. Doesn’t mean the gates of hell prevailed in the way it’s been interpreted fairly consistently.

Just my 2 cents. Maybe I’m wrong, just trying to help.


#20

[quote=Reformed Rob]ByzCath,

Isn’t the “Gates of Hell” understood to be bad teaching that won’t infect and take over the Papacy? Cut and dry, not much more to that. Did that happen to Paul VI? You’d say “no” I guess, so no, the “gates of hell” didn’t prevail. A person can legitimitally (sp?) believe that a Pope was over run by the Green Goblin or the North Korean govt. if indeed such a thing were to happen. Doesn’t mean the gates of hell prevailed in the way it’s been interpreted fairly consistently.

Just my 2 cents. Maybe I’m wrong, just trying to help.
[/quote]

If the Pope was overrun by this group then he was not incontrol of the Church, this group was. As this group is described as satanists then the Church was run by Satan so I can see how ByzCath would say that the Gates of Hell had prevailed over the Church as Hell was in control of it.

Nothing more than garbage.

As you are the OP in this, why did you bring this up? I see you are not Catholic. Seems that the motives are suspect here.


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