Horowitz: One chart exposes the lie behind universal lockdowns associated with Corona Virus

Democracy is a function for the majority of society to own, control & implement the will of the majority. The voting public have the right to structure their societies according to the sentiment of the majority & the key areas where government control is essential but not limited too are:
(1) Healthcare
(2) Education
When the majority require or demand their society function in a certain way then we must abide. Private interest are not in line with the majority of society, therefore we turn to our elected representatives for implementation. If society demands that decisions be made on behalf of private interest then it must be that way, that is the beauty of democracy, liberty & freedom

But what if the demands result in hurting or killing innocent people. Lockdowns are not effective, but there are other strategies, such as used by Taiwan that are. US lockdowns have resulted in 33.5 million people filing for unemployment. This is going to create severe disruptions in the US economy:
Taiwan - no lockdown (other strategies employed) 7 dead from corona virus.
US - lockdown resulting in 33.5 million filing for unemployment - 90,000 dead from corona virus.

1 Like

New hospitalizations just began to grow. 8 days out

Yes you make a very good point, democracy is not perfect & has many flaws but the overall aspect is that we decided together for better or worse. It is the foundation of democracy & the best way we know how to achieve overall concusses. Whether the decision of the majority was right or wrong is another matter.

I do agree with you but I don’t know of any other democracy that makes big decisions for the majority based on the sentiment of the minority. They might try, as we know our politicians also have self interests but the majority must still agree.

For true democracy to prosper we must go along with the majority even if in conflict with my own opinion. There is always hope when the time comes to elect our leaders again.

The issues you raised is more about how our leaders interpret the sentiment of the majority.

1 Like

The supervisor of San Diego County, California, is pushing back against Gov. Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home order, arguing that only six of the county’s 194 recorded coronavirus deaths are “pure, solely coronavirus deaths.”

“We’ve unfortunately had six pure, solely coronavirus deaths — six out of 3.3 million people,” San Diego County Supervisor Jim Desmond said in an interview this week, according to the San Diego Tribune . “I mean, what number are we trying to get to with those odds? I mean, it’s incredible. We want to be safe, and we can do it, but unfortunately, it’s more about control than getting the economy going again and keeping people safe.”

1 Like

The claim about more corona virus cases in states opening up now
(and all the usual chicken-little hystrionics that go with it - just like we see with the global warming game) is grounded in politics more than reality.

Published 2 days ago

Spot the Difference: Two governors reopened their states, but only one was accused of ‘human sacrifice’

By Andrew Stiles | Washington Free Beacon

Colorado Gov. Jared Polis, a Democrat, left, and Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, a Republican, right.

The governors of Georgia and Colorado have at least one thing in common. They both took steps to reopen their states’ economies in late April amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. But for some reason, the media’s coverage of Gov. Brian Kemp (R., Ga.) has been slightly different from the media’s coverage of Gov. Jared Polis (D., Colo.).

Kemp, for example, has been accused of experimenting with “human sacrifice.” So reads the headline of an April 29 article published in the Atlantic, which accuses Kemp of turning Georgia residents into “unwilling canaries in an invisible coal mine, sent to find out just how many individuals need to lose their job or their life for a state to work through a plague.”

TRUMP ANNOUNCES PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP TO DEVELOP CORONAVIRUS VACCINE

In a brief aside, the article acknowledges that some other states, including Colorado, “have already put similar plans in motion.” Polis, for some reason, is not identified as an accomplice in Kemp’s murder scheme. . . . .

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/spot-the-difference-two-governors-reopened-their-states-but-only-one-was-accused-of-human-sacrifice

2 Likes

1 Like

80k+ dead,

If you look at the chart, in my state there were more than four flu deaths for every Covid death. But if you look at NY, NJ, the Covid deaths are much higher than the flu deaths. One wonders whether that’s because of the introduction of infected people into nursing homes.

And if the mayor of San Diego is right, of the 80,000 reported Covid deaths, only about 2500 of them really were due to Covid. Hard to know, sometimes, what statistics are really telling us.

3 Likes

The USA has 4.5% of the population and 1/3 of the deaths.
100k by June is projected.
And you cannot look at the numbers in NY AND THE PAST because NY is on the decline while other states are about to raise their infection level. States other than NY will have the headlines as gimme goes on.
4.5 an 33 1/3. The difference ends all excuses based on number theories.

1 Like

What on earth?
The chart compares Influenza deaths (relatively few) plus cases where influenza was associated with fatal pneumonia over the course of 2017-2018, with deaths in the first month or so of the Covid-19 pandemic in the US. What is that all about?

Actually it is not that hard. Likewise it is easy to obscure what is going on, with apples to oranges comparisons.

1 Like

Yet a fraction of those deaths are actually covid19 related. We are being played for political purposes

3 Likes

A lot of this depends on the source and when the information was taken. Per capita, the U.S. is not at the top. But it’s a moving target for all, since some countries are just beginning to get a serious level of infections, like Brazil, for instance.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

OK, so you think Bergamo, Italy, and its 6-fold increase in all-cause death rate couldn’t happen to anyone else. You are willing to accept that people over 60 (including both candidates for President and a good fraction of Congress and the Supreme Court, presumably) are as good as dead, anyway, and not worth missing work to save. You made your point.
We get that. Just accept that it was sensible to suspend as many opportunities for human-to-human transmission as possible until health care workers could be given enough PPE and public health officials had some possible way to trace outbreaks. When the epidemic dies down enough to trace infected people, then, yes, it is urgent to allow people to support themselves again. To suggest the original lockdowns weren’t warranted just because they had the intended effect, however, is Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst.

Yes. We are number nine among major nations.
The contrast among nations that handled this well, and these at the bottom couldn’t be more stark.
Not being the absolute worst provides no honest comfort.

It is hard to know. Lol.
Besides it wasn’t for you if you took the time to read the details. Lol

Interesting read about the 1968 H3N2 influenza pandemic.

100k dead in a population of about 200m which be the approximate equivalent of 160k dead in our current population. Some prominent people died. Both President Johnson and Vice President Humphrey got sick.

Some quotes:

While it’s way too soon to compare the numbers, H3N2 has so far proved deadlier than COVID-19. Between 1968 and 1970, the Hong Kong flu killed between an estimated 1 and 4 million, according to the CDC and Encyclopaedia Britannica, with US deaths exceeding 100,000. As of this writing, COVID-19 has killed more than 295,000 globally and around 83,000 in the United States, according to Johns Hopkins University. But by all projections, the coronavirus will surpass H3N2’s body count even with a global shutdown.

How does this compare to the Hong Kong flu? Nathaniel Moir, a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, said there were few precautions taken during the H3N2 pandemic other than washing hands and staying home when sick.

“It was like the pandemic hadn’t even happened if you look for it in history books,” he said. “I am still shocked at how differently people addressed — or maybe even ignored it — in 1968 compared to 2020.”

The virus rarely made front-page news. A 1968 story in the Associated Press warned that deaths caused by the Hong Kong flu “more than doubled across the nation in the third week of December.” But the story was buried on Page 24. The New York Post didn’t publish any stories about the pandemic in 1968, and in 1969, coverage was mostly minor, like reports of newly married couples delaying honeymoons because of the virus and the Yonkers police force calling in sick with the Hong Kong flu during wage negotiations.

And this little SHOCKER relevant to the thread:

The idea that a pandemic could be controlled with social distancing and public lockdowns is a relatively new one, said Tucker. It was first suggested in a 2006 study by New Mexico scientist Robert J. Glass, who got the idea from his 14-year-old daughter’s science project.

“Two government doctors, not even epidemiologists” — Richard Hatchett and Carter Mecher, who worked for the George W. Bush administration — “hatched the idea [of using government-enforced social distancing] and hoped to try it out on the next virus.” We are, in effect, Tucker said, part of a grand social experiment.

We may have flattened the curve with social distancing, but we sure flattened the economy in so doing. Will it have been worth it? Well history isn’t written for years, but I think the ultimate verdict will not be kind when the damage to the economy takes too long to repair for many who fell through the cracks in recent weeks.

2 Likes

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics .”;

2 Likes

Even allowing for possible underreported COVID-19 deaths elsewhere (of up to 60%), it looks bad for the U.S.

Depends. If we as a society look at it as an opportunity to redesign airplanes, stadiums, etc, there will be theoretically more comfort for those attending. That would be a benefit IMO. Baseball stadiums weren’t always packed like canned sardines and they made money.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.