How are "Traditionalists" viewed within the church?

I am currently reading and learning as much as I can about catholicism, having been a lapsed catholic for a number of years.

After much research I think that traditional catholic worship appeals to me as I find it more sacred and holy.

However, because I have been absent from the church for many years, I would like to know if there are many other “traditionalists” within the church? Are those who prefer the Latin mass in the minority and how are they viewed by other non-traditional catholics?

Oooh, this could get good.:rolleyes: You may just as well invite everyone to a trad bashing party.

Sucks for all those doing the bashing… a majority of seminarians, at least in my diocese favor tradition rather than progessive thinking.

I would sure hope that won’t be the case.

In answer to the OP’s question: One first has to determine what defines “traditionalist”, and there are numerous threads on that subject alone. I doubt that you’ll reach any kind of unanimity even within those who proclaim themselves to be “traditionalists”.

Then you have to defne what you mean by “within the church”. Do you mean an “official” position? Do you mean by the Pope, or the hierarchy? Or do you mean by the incredibly varied Catholic population, which runs the gamut of views?

In the end, I don’t really think this question can be answered. I think individuals can give their views on how they perceive traditionalists, which is likely of little value since that perception is often based on very limited exposure and perhaps a very skewed sampling. Such questions, as Paramedicgirl notes, are very prone to bringing out those with very strong opinions, often lacking in substance.

It might not be too dissimilar to asking how your family is perceived. Some will like them, some won’t. Some will like some members but not others. Some won’t know your family but will offer opinions based on what they’ve heard from someone else. And in the end, some of the family may not care much for other members. :wink:

I actually kind of hope you’ll reconsider and ask the thread to be withdrawn so as to not draw the kind of comments that Paramedicgirl is anticipating, and which would also not surprise me. We have enough division already without creating a “piling on” room.

Peace,

Bring them here. They are much needed.

What you are going to find is that both sides of the Church use the extremes to malign the more moderates.
You will hear lots of comments that traditionalists think there is no valid pope or that the New Mass is invalid, but these statements are not true for 99% of traditionalists.
You will also hear that all those who are not traditionalists want “clown masses” or women priests, but these are not true for 99% of those who prefer the New Mass.

Charity is missing on both sides, which is the most deplorable situation in the Church today. More deplorable than those claiming the New Mass is an abomination, or those turning it into an abomination. For if we have not Love, we are not followers of Christ.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

They are mine I say LOL. How about if we share?:wink:

Oooh, this could get good. You may just as well invite everyone to a trad bashing party.

This was not my intention. I am new to this forum so I don’t know what people are like here, I didn’t realise that this sort of question might stir up negativity.

I was not trying to create an argumentitive post. I just wanted to know if this style of worship is attended by a small number of people, or if it is popular.

Then you have to defne what you mean by “within the church”. Do you mean an “official” position? Do you mean by the Pope, or the hierarchy? Or do you mean by the incredibly varied Catholic population, which runs the gamut of views?

I’ve watched a few latin masses on youtube and I liked what I saw; the reverence and holiness was great. I was wondering if there are many other lay people who are attracted by traditional worship.

All I wanted to know is if there are many people who attend latin masses within the church? Basically, do many people attend these masses and will it be hard for me to find one?

I actually kind of hope you’ll reconsider and ask the thread to be withdrawn so as to not draw the kind of comments that Paramedicgirl is anticipating, and which would also not surprise me. We have enough division already without creating a “piling on” room.

I didn’t realise that people argued over this kind of thing, I just thought it was a matter of personal preference. Personally, I don’t have any yet because I haven’t been to Mass in years. However, as I have said, I am interested in the TLM and wanted to know if this is widespread or marginal.

However, if this thread causes any problems then I will ask for it to be removed. I am not interested in arguing, I just want to learn what I can about this rite from practicing catholics who attend TLM on a regular basis.

I haven’t been to church since I was a small boy, so if I ask questions that offends people then I appologise. I didn’t know that there was a divide between those who like TLM and those who don’t.

Really, that’s what it should be. But as Thursday noted, there are extremists at both end of the spectrum that like to take a view that there is only “one right way” or that their preference is “superior” somehow. That leads to bad feelings and lots of arguments.

As to whether there are many people with a preference for the TLM, that’s one of the things we will be finding out. In case you hadn’t seen the news, the Pope recently announced that the special permissions to offer the TLM are being lifted, and starting in September it should be easier to find one for those who prefer it.

As to quantity, the current numbers are probably less than 500,000 out of about 1.1 billion Catholics according to estimates I’ve seen. Whether that number will grow, and how significantly, is a matter of great speculation. The new rules come up for review in three years, at which point I’m sure they will be looking to see what is happening along those lines.

I’m glad to see you called back to the Church, whichever liturgical preference you might have. :slight_smile:

AS a youth I attended the LAtin Mass, and yes it was beautiful but it was very hard to follow and most of the kids my age did not get much out of the Mass. When Vatican II came about and the mass was now in the language of the congregation it was better recieved by all. The intention was to get more involvement of the people into the Mass and the Church. I for one enjoy the the Priest facing me and the music that is allowed to be played. The Latin Mass left no room for innovation. The unfortunate part of innovation you may on ocassion have inappropriate results in the Mass.

Okay, and how do you view “Traditionalists?”

So I won’t have to remove this thread, please keep the discussion to your Mass preferences, to numbers of traditionalists, and to helping the OP understand the TLM, as he requested. I will delete any attempts to turn this thread into an agrument for or against either the TLM or the NOM. Thank you.

Hi Dempsey,

In my experience, it is a mixed bag. For younger Catholics (I include myself at a young 41yo :smiley: ) who have no experience with the Traditional Latin Mass, I think Traditionalists are viewed with ignorance and/or curiosity. Something like - “why does that lady have a handkerchief on her head?” or “Latin’s a dead foreign language, so why should we use that?” For some of the older “non-traditionalists,” the TLM is looked on with nostalgia…“the Mass of their youth.” For other older “non-traditionalists,” the Traditionalists are just archaic, non-feeling curmudgeons who want to “turn back the clock!”

Unfortunately, some of the latter group has its influence on the others. As a younger Catholic who is ignorant of the TLM, you will often hear a dismissive tone from other “non-traditionalists” in your parish. So, it’s not hatred, as much as a “those people are in the margin, don’t pay attention to them.”

For me, I am someone who has become more traditional as I have matured in my faith - primarily for the same reasons you are attracted to tradition. However, I understand some of the concerns of others (such as my teenagers and wife) who are not too thrilled with the idea of learning and/or reciting any prayers in Latin (although my wife and teenage daughter are doing her best, my teenage son is standing quietly) at our current parish.

When our pastor offers a TLM in September, we will be one family that will attend…not sure how many others. Our 11:30AM Mass (Latin Mass of Paul VI) is fairly well received, but not as full as our other Mass times.

God bless,
Robert

To answer your first question: The suppression of the Traditional Latin Mass has had a negative effect on the number of traditionalists, but in recent years the interest in the TLM has been growing, especially among young people who were never attached to the TLM before it was replaced by the Novus Ordo Mass. Now, with the Motu Proprio, we have been given more freedom for access to the ancient Mass, so hopefully we will see those numbers increase.

Your second question: Yes, traditionalists are still in the minority, and they are viewed both with love and with hatred by non-traditional Catholics. Some non-traditional Catholics just want the trads to have access to the TLM just like they enjoy access to the NO rite, and others see the return to tradition as a threat that will bring everyone back to the dark ages, and turn back the clock to a Mass and traditions that they have no attachment to.

I say there’s room for both rites, and each group should respect the Pope’s wishes for access to the properly said Mass of each rite. The liberal Catholics who are dead set against the Motu Proprio should not try to sabotage the efforts of the Pope to give traditionalists what was taken away from them for so many years. The word disobedience comes to mind.

Here is some great advice. Go to a church that offers the TLM and don’t think for a second that it should matter what alleged non-traditionalists think. Its a valid mass, was good enough for the Church for over a thousand years before it suddenly turned scandalous to prefer, and re-engage with the Mass the actually evangelized and reinforced the faith of the community.

Those who think traditionalists are clinging to the past and out of touch, (which was a trait of honor in the Church and what preserved it as the worlds oldest institution) are the same people who roll out of bed 5 minutes before mass if they actually go, throw on jeans and sweats and make it just in time for a Eucharist they probably shouldn’t be receiving.

Its all about your faith and connecting yourself to it in a meaningful way that matters. I generally feel in thie day and age the more people think strangely of us, the more we’re on the right track.

There is no doubt that the essential glow of the TLM is the supreme reverence. From experience, both old Mass and new with much thinking and praying, I think the most important thing is to “Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength”, then to “love your neighbor as yourself (or as I have loved you - Jn.)”, whether you are a member of the TLM or the Novus Ordo.

:slight_smile:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

you should go to the naughty stool…

The reality is that there is mixed reaction to traditional Catholics. Some priests are giving the runaround to Catholics requesting the TLM; others are doing their level best to implement the recent motu proprio.

After Vatican II, traditional Catholics were often treated like lepers, but I think that will change as the realization sinks in that the pope is serious about the MP.

Praying to God for this.

May Joseph and Mary and all the Saints in Heaven pray for us in this matter. AMEN

And it is unfortunately exactly this kind of statement, and the “superiority” it implies, that so endears “traditionalists” to so many. The belief that anyone with a different preference is lazy, ill-informed, irreverent, ad nauseum.

Just as sad as those who might truly believe that “traditionalists” are as described there.

:frowning:

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