And that perception I believe is true by and large. African immigrants do not share the same history as African Americans who have been in this country for several generations.
Yes, I agree. Recent immigrants usually don’t understand all the history and dynamics of the place they have just moved to in the last decade or two.
Mentioning their attitudes and perceptions should not be construed as an automatic endorsement of them.
Yes, I know. It was clear the first time around.
Still, as an African-American, it never gets any easier to read those horrible and hurtful stereotypes.
Edit: Sorry. I’m a little emotional right now due to the three mass shootings we’ve had that saw immigrants and African Americans targeted. It has nothing to do with you, Bear. I probably shouldn’t be on the internet right now. I’m calling it a night.
My husband and I have dozens of friends in Dayton and used to go to the Oregon District a few times a year for events and meetups and fun. I’ve been to Ned Peppers and the other bars shown on the news.
Our friends there are not all white. One of our friends had just left the area of the shooting to walk home, about 10 minutes before all hell broke loose. I’m not happy about that whole situation either, believe me.
Second generation American. Both sides were graduates of Ellis Island. The first came here right after it opened. She was very proud of learning “the good English” by reading comic in newspapers. By 1912 she had become a U.S. citizen and had gone back to Hungary three times sponsoring family members to immigrate. One was the man who became her husband. His brother jumped ship and was an illegal immigrant. In 1966 I was leaving for overseas and she related a few family stories. You see Uncle Andrew was given help by the family. (I think it was by her) they turned him into the authorities! By WW 1 he had a government contract for cavalry horses and a large ranch. They stood by him and he too became a citizen. She help quite a few people legally come to this country but followed the law. She was a life long Democrat, a constitutional conservative and very Catholic. Today she could not be a Democrat! The point is immigrates are what makes this country, legal immigrants that make America their country and become part of it. She was very patriotic and today would be slammed for being a “nationalist.”
Sin, temptation, life/death issues, moral & ethical dilemmas”
Fails the test. Delete the forum?
Political labels can encompass a very broad set of views which is why words like “conservativism” and “liberalism” can do more harm than good, at least if you’re anybody who doesn’t easily fall into a mainstream camp on Fox or CNN, etc.
Abe Lincoln wasn’t really a conservative for his time. He was progressive. The Republican Party up until the Civil Rights Era was more progressive in terms of championing new ideas and new social norms. Dwight Eisenhower, for example, was a decidedly progressive man for his time and pretty dovish on issues related to foreign policy. He was the last Republican president to closely resemble Abraham Lincoln. Both of the major parties have mutated since then as the USA has become more secular.
The Catholic Church isn’t so much “anti” anything as it is about supporting life, children, human dignity, and the ability to worship and honor God without fear of oppression.
If you have fairly liberal immigration policies, then have liberal immigration policies. You don’t have to fit into a certain mold because financial elites on TV say so. Pope Francis along with the canonized saints of the 20th century don’t really neatly fit into American conservatism, and that is absolutely a historic fact.
I’m a conservative who voted for Trump in the last presidential election.
I’m also the grandchild of an immigrant. A legal immigrant.
I support (legal) immigration. Immigration is a good thing. An immigrant comes to my country, takes a job in the U.S., and benefits their employer and the economy, and benefits themself as well.
I oppose illegal immigration. Our first priority for our jobs and our resources should be our own people (including our older Americans and our veterans).
Well, “conservatism” wasn’t the party of Abe Lincoln, the Republican Party was. And Lincoln was more of a political moderate in his time. But anyway…
There’s a lot of good about conservatism/ Republican party. Being against abortion and understanding marriage as being between a man and a woman are good things. So I respect them for that.
But I have problems with how many conservatives view immigration policy and I believe there needs to be serious reform. Personally, I am quite liberal on immigration. So while I’m probably conservative-leaning overall, there’s certain issues I just can’t agree with them on, immigration being one of them. And guess what? That’s okay.
“Conservatism” is not a party in the US. Abraham Lincon was a Republican.
You may want to read the platform of a party, it often varies from what talking points and pundits say.
For example, the Republican Party Platform is not “anti homosexual”, the platform is clear that as far as same sex marriage it ought to be left to the States:
We, therefore, support the appointment of justices
and judges who respect the constitutional limits on
their power and respect the authority of the states
to decide such fundamental social questions.
They do not mention “anti trans” at all, they do clearly speak against discrimination:
We reaffirm the Constitution’s fundamental
principles: limited government, separation of
powers, individual liberty, and the rule of law. We
denounce bigotry, racism, anti-Semitism, ethnic
prejudice, and religious intolerance. Therefore, we
oppose discrimination based on race, sex, religion,
creed, disability, or national origin and support
statutes to end such discrimination
Prostitution is not mentioned in the national platform.
Reading the entire Fifth Amendment to the Party Platform (pg 13) you will see that the official party platform seeks only limits on abortion, it does not seek a complete ban on direct abortion.
I would advise watching both of the major party platform debates at the next convention(s). They will likely be available on YouTube and maybe on C-Span (the major networks no longer broadcast the platform sessions sadly)
Do not take anyone’s word for what a party does and does not stand for. Read the platforms for yourself and make an informed decision. Remember, there are more than two parties in this country!
First, conservatives (as a group) are not against immigration. A vocal subgroup are, but as a group, conservatives are not against immigration.
Conservatives simply want everyone to follow the law. It’s no different than anything else.
Practically ALL of the discussions regarding “immigration” in the United States has been about illegal immigration (whether people entering the country illegally or overstaying their visa.)
The so called “pro immigration” party has NOT been suggesting any realistic ways to make legal immigration easier and more streamlined. Instead, they have been simply focused on not punishing for breaking the law and/or the law to be ignored. And some from that party have been actively pushing for open boarders.
BOTH the Republican Party & Democratic Party have vocal forces within the party that are preventing them from streamlining LEGAL immigration.
So please know - being conservative doesn’t mean you are against immigration. Most conservatives are simply against people breaking the law: whether that’s the speed limit, alcohol, immigration, drugs, murder, etc.
One of the issues I have not seen much written about is that which differentiates legal immigration from mass migration… Did the old Bracero program fail in some way? It seemed to form a secondary standard of entry for workers who were not immigrants but were instead migrant laborers, mostly for harvesting crops… It might be worth another look, but this resist Trump House does not seem willing…
Conservatism is not necessarily anti-immigrant. There are strains of conservatism which are, but there are strains of other ideologies that are as well. I’m quite conservative (I have many friends who work for the Trump administration and Republican members of Congress who think I’m too conservative) and not anti-immigrant at all.
It is tough to take a path one’s parent(s) didn’t take. For example, my mother left the Church when I was young, but then I returned when I was old.
You wouldn’t be here if your father hadn’t done what he did. That makes it hard to turn your back on others who are doing what he did.
I imagine that the same happens with children born out of wedlock. How can they advocate for marriage if they wouldn’t be here if it hadn’t been for their parents’ sin?
The best I can offer is: Be grateful to your parents, be grateful for your nation. Use the good you have been given to do good for others. Pray for a good resolution to our current immigration problems.
I found this short post about the program and the pros and cons in regards to it. It’s interesting but I’m not sure we would do this today. The cons seem to outweigh the pros! However, a modified version could work but would definitely take cross party involvement.
Actually, the Republican Party of today (Trump’s party) is nothing like the party of Abraham Lincoln.
President Lincoln tried to hold the Union together, despite the division in this country over slavery.
Interesting. Since you oppose birth right citizenship, how do you propose you should have been able to gain citizenship in this country if not by your birth here?
Good question. My son is the child of an immigrant (his mother) and he is pretty conservative. Growing up in my home will do that to you
So, have you renounced your US Citizenship?
I think you’re human. I think it’s okay to love or admire a political philosophy provided it doesn’t become an idol or become your God. I am a fellow conservative as well.