How can I strengthen this argument aganist UPC, Jesus Only view of godhead?


#1

Bottom line, these texts show that the Father knows when Jesus will return, but Jesus himself does not know when.

Revelation 1: 1

The Revelation [unveiling] of Jesus Christ, which God [the Father] gave unto him God the Son], to shew unto his servants [Us] things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel[messenger or angel] unto his servant [apostle] John:

So, in this text, we have God the Father telling Jesus, who passed it on to an angel or messenger, who revealed it to the apostle John. Point being before this point the Son of God did not know the information revealed about end time events.

Acts 1:6-7

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Matthew 24

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, **but my Father only. **

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


#2

UPC? :shrug:

Isn’t that the bar-code on the products we buy?

I am sure you do not mean that here, but that is all I can think of. (Yes, I am trying to be a little funny here, but I really do not know what you mean.)


#3

Daniel, Christ is not only in the Nature of God, but of Man, and so in His human nature He is able to (and does) grow in the knowledge and wisdom that pertains to being a Man. So when addressed about “the End” we see Him limiting His answer to what He knows as Man, because this is information that is not for mankind to know, only to be prepared for. As St. Augustine said, “It was no part of His teaching duty to make it [the day of the General Judgment] known to us.”

Fr. William Most has an excellent book, The Consciousness of Christ, that I think will be helpful. It is fully available to be read here:

catholicculture.org/library/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=215


#4

I think he means “United Pentecostal Church”. :wink:


#5

OR you could interpret it to say Jesus, who knows all things, was
informed by the father that it was in the Father’s mind that this was to be shewn to the messenger.

So, in this text, we have God the Father telling Jesus to pass it on to an angel or messenger, who revealed it to the apostle John. Point being before this point the Son of God did know the information revealed about end time events, but did not know when it was to be revealed.

Of course in any way, we believe the Son proceeds from the Father, so all things of the Son are received eternally from the Father. The trinity begin eternal, all things received by the Son are received, not in time, but through all time.

:slight_smile: nobody said the Trinity is easy to understand, even though God is Simple :slight_smile:


#6

:doh2: :blushing:


#7

Noah knew when the flood was coming. As does Jesus know when he’s coming.


#8

Matthew 24:36

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mark 13:32

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


#9

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