How can u prove god


#1

i like what bertrand russel says that jesus was morally corrupt since he said that there was ahell,no good person would say such a yhing.and everlasting hell torment.i arecommend free thinkersd every where to read bertrand rusels book why i am not a christian.he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.


#2

You owe it to humanity to learn proper grammar, spelling and punctuation before you launch a philosophical attack on people already deep into the pursuit of truth. :wink:


#3

Your post about Bertrand Russel doesn’t seem close to the topic of proving the existence of God. Concerning your remark, I strongly disagree that a good person would not say there is such a place as hell.

Let me illustrate with an example. We all know there are such things as prisons, right? Criminals who are convicted go there–sometimes for life. Now imagine that you have a good friend who, for whatever reason, has decided that he should murder someone. Since you are a good person, you try to talk him out of it. He doesn’t listen. Then you tell him he could end up in prison for the rest of his life if he did committed this crime.

What kind of friend would you be to this person if you did not warn him of the consequences of his actions?

So, too, Jesus, who, being God, knows full well the consequences of sin, loved us so much that He shared with us what those consequences are, that we might not end up eternally separated from God.

I have a feeling this answer will not satisfy you, but I hope you at least can follow this analogy.

Peace through Jesus and Mary.


#4

Why is it for weak-minded people? Maybe non-christians are weak because they don’t want to recognize there is a power higher than they can acheive. Maybe they are SCARED of God?


#5

[quote=humble spirit]i like what bertrand russel says that jesus was morally corrupt since he said that there was ahell,no good person would say such a yhing.and everlasting hell torment.i arecommend free thinkersd every where to read bertrand rusels book why i am not a christian.he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

Don’t feed the trolls.


#6

[quote=humble spirit]people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

Humble Spirit (nice name by the way), please tell me, what would be the incentive to “search deeply for the right answers” if Russels perspective were true? If I thought I was going to die, at any moment, then cease to exist (which is what I believe is the atheist belief), I fail to see the incentive to go on, let alone search for any answers. Humble Spirit it simply doesn’t make any sense. Without Hope and without Faith, why search? What could we learn? Possibly how to extend our lives, to be a bit more comfortable? I fail to see the point.

Whatever is temporal is of no lasting importance. If there is no life eternal, I’d just as soon cash it in now.

Thank you for posting,
–Mike


#7

God bless you humble spirit, maybe you’ve begun your own search.

but uh…
Religion:
catholic

:confused:


#8

[quote=humble spirit]i like what bertrand russel says that jesus was morally corrupt since he said that there was ahell,no good person would say such a yhing.and everlasting hell torment.i arecommend free thinkersd every where to read bertrand rusels book why i am not a christian.he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

If there was no hell, do you think God would be just to those who have earned heaven, by admitting the wicked into heaven?

Why do you think all governments on earth maintain prisons? The answer is quite clear on this: to prevent convicted criminals from further victimizing the peaceful and law-abiding citizenry.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#9

humble spirit,

I’ve read Bertrand Russel’s work, the entire work is a straw man. He’d have been a lot more convincing if he’d actually bothered to learn what Christianity really teaches (but then he’d perhaps not have written the book).


#10

Here are some excellent arguments for the existence of God
Arguments for God’s Existence

Can You Prove God Exists?
Argument from Design
Argument from First Cause
Argument from Conscience
Argument from History
Argument from Pascal’s Wager
Argument from Desire
The Divinity of Christ

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm


#11

For those with faith no proof is necessary. For those without faith no proof is enough.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:


#12

[quote=humble spirit]i like what bertrand russel says that jesus was morally corrupt since he said that there was ahell,no good person would say such a yhing.and everlasting hell torment.i arecommend free thinkersd every where to read bertrand rusels book why i am not a christian.he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

How can Bertrand Russell, one who rejects the Inductive Principle (see “The Problems of Philosophy”) and one who believes that we are nothing but matter in motion, molecules moving through space call Jesus “morally corrupt?”

Without moral absolutes of right or wrong, how can one say someone else is bad? He may say “I don’t like what Jesus said” but he can never say Jesus was “bad” or “morally corrupt.” Russell believes morals are mere conventions that mankind has evolved–so how can he judge someone else? On what basis can he say that his moral system is correct and someone else’s isn’t?

How can an atheist account for the inductive principle?

God bless,
c0ach


#13

Freedom and the possibility of Hell go hand in hand. Russell’s views on Hell shouldn’t be a surprise. After all, he rejected free will.


#14

I find your question about how you can prove God interesting. I believe that everyone should be able to prove and see God for themselves even if they have been brought up without religious beliefs.

Take the thoughts of creative design. Can anyone looking at the Universe possibly really believe there wasn’t something behind the incredible beauty and detail. Yet you should also wonder at the fierce violence of the Universe as well.

Consider that there is an author and creator of this Universe, and yet it also seems so savage and violent. As if something beautiful was made but somehow went wrong.

Think about what men create. If an architect builds a house, he doesn’t build himself into the house. How can you really tell anything about the architect from the house he built. But think about this, you are very familiar with a particular creation, namely yourself. Someone looking at you from the outside would not be able to tell anything about the creator, yet you yourself have within you something so beautiful that you can’t hide from within you that reveals to you the creator.

What is inside you that constantly compells you to choose what is right and feel bad when you do not make this choice. If this something is always trying to get you to choose Good. Then you should be able to assume that this something is all goodness.

You have a problem with Hell, yet this something inside you that reveals to you that Goodness is of the utmost importance and is the same something that created not only you, but the entire Universe. This Supreme Goodness would also be Supreme Justice. Leading your life in a way in which you always choose to ignore this inner something leads you to choose Supreme Justice instead of Supreme Goodness. Without the great gift of Free Will you would be like a tree and not able to choose between goodness and justice.

We are all bound by certain Laws of Nature, Gravity, Biology, etc. Rocks and plants and trees are all bound by these laws as well. We are not permitted to break these laws. Yet, the one law we are all bound to follow “the moral law”, we break constantly. We are the only beings on this planet who are bound by this moral law and yet have the free will to break it.

Your creator reveals himself to you within your inner self and his moral laws are written on every heart. There will be no excuse for anyone when they die for these truths are whispered to us constantly within the design of ourselves.

God bless you on your journey. God will not ever leave you alone he hold you in existence.


#15

[quote=Peg]Here are some excellent arguments for the existence of God
Arguments for God’s Existence

Can You Prove God Exists?
Argument from Design
Argument from First Cause
Argument from Conscience
Argument from History
Argument from Pascal’s Wager
Argument from Desire
The Divinity of Christ

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm
[/quote]

Pascal’s Wager is not a real proof for God’s existence. It simply says that by believing in God, we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. If we believe He exists and in fact He exists, we gain everything. If we believe He exists, and it later turns out He doesn’t, then we have nothing to lose. Thus it is better to believe than not to believe.

The rest are true arguments however.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#16

[quote=humble spirit]i like what bertrand russel says that jesus was morally corrupt since he said that there was ahell,no good person would say such a yhing.and everlasting hell torment.i arecommend free thinkersd every where to read bertrand rusels book why i am not a christian.he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

Hi Humble Spirit,
obviously you are looking.That is one proof. Instead of doing many things you are spending some of your time searching. God is the only one who will always love you, not man, so do not fear Him. You also have your conscience. God said He gave that to you so you would automatically know right from wrong. Can you feel this in yourself. Now take “luck” out of your life. There is no such word. This is a blessing from God. He is giving you a small present. If you really want to be sure, you need to ask for Him. The proof positive is absolute and undeniable. He will send His Holy Spirit to you and you will feel His spirit move in your body. That will make you sit up and take notice.
Dont be afraid of being called weak minded. Join the people who know some of the truth and are continually searching for more. Truly, there is nothing more beautiful in the world than the Truth. We invite you to join us.
Christ be with yohttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gifu
walk in love
edwinG


#17

[quote=humble spirit]he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

I have to disagree. I find it unthinkable to call St. Thomas Aquinas, a great and brilliant man who devoted nearly his entire life to deep philosophical and scriptural study and writing as being weak-minded. Have you even bothered to read his works with the same enthusiasm with which you read Russell?

If you want to discuss the existence of God in this thread, then it would be best if you present us your arguments, since it is quite clear to me your mind is already made up on this issue.

Peace

Gerry :slight_smile:


#18

I think it would be appropriate to quote what exactly Russell said about Christ in his famous lecture/essay *Why I Am Not A Christian *given in 1927:

“There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ’s moral character, and that is that He believed in hell. I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can believe in everlasting punishment.”

It could be argued that Jesus believed in hell because it is just true. How Russell “feels” about the idea of everlasting punishment simply doesn’t matter. Perhaps his notions are incorrect.

I am an atheist, and I have hung around in skeptical circles long enough to know that no skeptic who is at least a tad informed about the arguments for and against Christianity takes this essay seriously.

Go and ask some skeptics yourself: www.infidels.org (Click on the Forum button).


#19

The famous Russell vs. Copleston debate online

They cover the contingency (ontological) argument, religious experience, and the moral argument.

Phil P


#20

[quote=humble spirit]i like what bertrand russel says that jesus was morally corrupt since he said that there was ahell,no good person would say such a yhing.and everlasting hell torment.i arecommend free thinkersd every where to read bertrand rusels book why i am not a christian.he makes alot of sence christianity is for weak minded people.people who r very ignorant.we owe it to humanity to search deeply for the right answers, and not rely on fables and myths.
[/quote]

God is infinitely good and merciful - therefore, there is a Hell for the impenitent. We are not forced to love God - but if we reject God, we have only ourselves. Forever. Without love - we will have rejected God, and where God is rejected, love is rejected. To force us to love God, would be cruel, and God is not cruel. Besides, love cannot be forced - love is either freely given, or not goven at all. Eternal lovelessness and loneliness and self-hatred is all that will remain to us - that is Hell. “Hell is the enjoyment of your own way for ever” - not even God will interfere to stop us doing our own will. We will be left alone - just as we insisted And that too is Hell.

Of course we are weak-minded :). We are think, like Russell, that the human condition is wretched and doomed to futility. We know that (see Romans 8.19 onwards). But we also know that there is a way off the “rock of unyielding despair”, to use Rusell’s words. Because despair is not what we are made for - God in Christ has given us hope in Him instead; we would be fools not to escape when escape is offered. So we are not left stranded, or despairing.

Our faith may be a myth - but it is far more heartening, far more fruitful in goodness, far profounder and rich in ideas, than despair is. Despair is a very great evil - goodness is not evil :slight_smile: And goodness points back beyond itself, to God the supremely Real and supremely Good. In fact, strictly speaking, God alone is really Real, really Good. Our myth is not a myth - it is a true myth, the Myth that actually happened. It is the only thing that has happened, really. We are mere fables in comparison with the solidity of Christ. He is the story-teller - we are characters in search of our Author.

Russell’s philosophy has produced no wars of religion, true; but neither has it produced any Saints. And the Saints in Catholicism are a rebuke to the evil done as a result of Catholicism: our sins are condemned by the very religion that is blamed for them.

BTW: God can’t be proved - God can be known only by faith and hope and love. We swim, only by swimming; not by reading books about water and the physics of water. So with God; we must love God, in order to be able to love God, and so as to find out Who God is. And that we learn from Jesus Christ, Who shows what God really is. He shows us God’s Life in action; because He knows it from His own experience. So He shares it. But we won’t receive it, if we insist on refusing it. We can blind ourselves to God if we really insist. But we must take the consequences of doing so, and not be “weak-minded”. ##


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