How can we KNOW what is

Dear freind,

HOW can we KNOW what is literal and what is not in the bible especially the NT}?

God Bless you

  1. Tradition. Literal events have multiple trustworthy stories from verbal tradition attached to them.
  2. The essence of the text. The Gospels were written as more or less historical documents. Apocalypse, on the other hand, was written as a book of symbolism.
  3. Taking the text as a system, comparing the fragments with each other and solving the seeming contradictions in a logical way.
    [/quote]

The teachings of Jesus have to be taken
“in the Spirit” just as He took the Law of
Moses!!

As a dispensational Baptist, I believe every word of the Bible was inspired. We call it verbal plenary inspiration. What is required for the proper understanding of the bible is to study, not just read, the scripture. A good reference bible will help you to see other texts in scripture that will assist in understanding the text. Websites such as blueletterbible.org/
will let you study the original words in Hebrew and Greek from the earliest texts which will greatly aid you in understanding what was the actual intent of the text. And there are many resources for a deeper understanding of the historical aspects which one needs to know to truly understand the context in which to read the scripture. Study Bibles, which usually have much of this information added are helpful, but be aware that every one of them carries some personal opinion baggage.
and always Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you study.

2nd Timothy 2:15
“15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

2nd Timothy 3:15-17
"15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

This is the problem I have too, I realize catholics say we must have faith that the holy spirit is active and ensures against any inaccurate interpretations, but imo, that relies a little much on human beings.

If the bible was written a little more clearly, I think more people would come to God. Here on CAF, there have countless threads about common misinterpretations of verses, so that shows many many people are not getting the intended message, if this were any other publication, the author/ publisher would go to great lengths to ensure the correct message was getting thru.

But, you write as if the Bible were the end-all and be-all of our faith–it isn’t, you know. :wink:

The Bible is an extremely ancient text–even the NT writings are 2000 years old. We hardly know anything of the times in which they were written, as it is. Clarity, of the kind you want is just not possible. As if anyone can read any book at leisure without any understanding of the times in which it was written, the author of the book, the context, etc. is asking too much.

Our faith is not based on the Bible. That’s the first thing to be understood. Our faith has been revealed by God to men down through the ages. Some of that revelation was written down and some of it wasn’t. Much was passed on orally–in songs and poems and other such forms that helped people remember. We don’t put our faith in the Bible, but in Christ. For he is the Word of God sent to reveal the Father to us. He didn’t ask his Apostles to record his words nor did he tell anyone to write about his life. He commissioned his Apostles to teach, preach, baptize and make believers of people from all the world.

He founded his Church for this purpose. He promised his Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her into all truth. Our faith isn’t static. It has to deal with the times in which she finds herself and preach to the people of those times. It’s a huge misconception to think that all one has to do is open a Bible and people will be converted. It’s writings were not written with that in mind. Rather, God gave man the power and the authority to do bring men to conversion So yes, it’s up to man to fulfill Jesus’ commission. The Magisterium has the duty and authority to declare what is and what isn’t the true teachings of Christ–because he gave the Apostles and their successors that authority.

We really can’t KNOW anything. We can only have faith and believe.

If you are saying can we KNOW that everything in the Bible is LITERALLY true, that is a different matter. The Bible is a deep, complex, poetic, historical, mythological book that is full of TRUTHS.

To take it literally is only for children or mentally disabled adults.

This ^

Thanks!

GBY

AGREED but what does this mean or at least imply?

Thanks

GBY

OK, thanks so let’s start here.

What about Mt 16: 18-19

John 17:17-20

John 6: 47*-58

Mt 28:19-20

Eph. 4:1-7 as starters:shrug:

God Bless you my friend!
Patrick {PJM] the OP

will let you study the original words in Hebrew and Greek from the earliest texts which will greatly aid you in understanding what was the actual intent of the text. And there are many resources for a deeper understanding of the historical aspects which one needs to know to truly understand the context in which to read the scripture. Study Bibles, which usually have much of this information added are helpful, but be aware that every one of them carries some personal opinion baggage.
and always Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you study.

2nd Timothy 2:15
“15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

2nd Timothy 3:15-17
"15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

So dear friend, please explain the passages I shared as examples… Each of them can be supported by other passages.

And if I MAY?

Would you agree with this definition of TRUTH:shrug:

Dictionary Definition of “Truth”
The true or actual state of a matter:

  1. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
  2. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
    3. the state or character of being true.
    4. actuality or actual existence.
    5. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
    6. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
    7. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived
    experience:
    8. agreement with a standard or original.
    9… accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
    10. Archaic. Fidelity or constancy.
    TEN REALITIES of a single truth

GBY

PJM

I certainly DO agree with you on the faith part:D

BUT there in very MUCH that the HS and Christ Church teaches that we CAN and should know. Amen!

Thanks and GBY!

THANK you

Please READ my POST #, 11 & 12 :slight_smile:

God Bless you

May I ask??? What led you to leave the RCC?

Patrick {the OP}

According to your church’s teaching, one can not leave.

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=13411600&postcount=2

If you meant what led me to leave the practice of the faith, I suppose the same as anyone else who does so. They come to lack the faith and belief you have in the teaching authority and perhaps lack faith in Catholic interpretations of Scripture passages such as the ones you listed in posts 11 &12. If everyone held to the same faith and beliefs as faithful Catholics, everyone would be a faithful Catholic. But that simply isn’t the case in the real world.

Peace and thank you… God’s blessings upon you as well

If we have faith and believe in Christ, which i think was a premise in the OP, then we should believe we can know everything according to this faith, otherwise Jesus came for nothing. His life and death was not only for the apostles and those living while He was alive but equally, maybe even more so, for those in future times. To say “we really can’t know” is like saying “the messiah really didn’t come”, or “Jesus is not really truth” or, “there is just no way to really understand the Holy Spirit today”.:eek:

Peace!!!

My dear friend in Christ,

You are certainly correct in sharing your input that a great many folks are getting incorrect understanding of the bible. No more clear evidence exist IMO, than the MANY differing faiths and churches that are identified as Christians. This Multiplicity stems directly from different understanding of what Sacred Scripture actually is teaching.

Indeed this was known and addressed by Saint Peter nearly 2,000 years ago.

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding** this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation**. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

[Douay bible explanation]
[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures:

Acts 20: 28-30 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, [singular] which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Douay Rheims Bible

John 14:26 “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you”
Eph. 2: 20-23 “Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: In whom all the building, [singular] being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. [singular] In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.”

Eph. 2: 20-23 “Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: In whom all the building, [singular] being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. [singular] In whom you also are built together into a habitation of God in the Spirit.”

But our All Knowing, Loving and Merciful Lord understood the issue; He even planed it, and FOR it.

He planned it so that there would be in an absolute sense, a NEED to rely on God the Holy Spirit.

His answer to this problem is quite simple to explain, and most difficult to apparently comprehend -

ONE! One is the answer provided by our GOD

TRUTH can on be singular per defined issue
One True God {the 1st Commandment}
One True set of Faith beliefs {Mt 16L18-19; John 17:17-20; Mt 28:19-20; Eph. 4:4-7}
And through Just ONE Church that Jesus Founded, guides, guards and desired. {same references as above}

A critical key, missed by very many, is either overlooking the significance of singular tenses words used by the bibles authors, {They, Them, You ect.}

God Bless you,
PJM

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Eph. 2:8-10 NKJV

So MY friend do you think GOD {who can only be fait and JUST} is “OK” with today’s multiplicity of DIFFERING sets of faith beliefs? AND if so on what basis::shrug:

God Bless you

Patrick

Dear friend in Christ:)

Your right in that it is MY Church:) {Jesus Himself claims IT as such in Matthew 16:18:

[18] And I [GOD] say to THEE [SINGULAR[ That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build **MY CHURCH *** [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It is irrefutable that NO “church” CAN BE separated from the set of faith-beliefs of THAT Church.:wink:

Eph 4: 1-7
[1] I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, [2] With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. [3] Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4]** One body** and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. [7] But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ

And MY friend, while One God, Faith and Church is not as you note, today’s reality. It is nevertheless GODS plan, GODS intention, GODS desire.:shrug:

No where, NOT one place, NOT one time can it be shown in the BIBLE that GOD ever accepted, permitted, tolerated, overlooked OTHER competing sets of faith beliefs. THAT He did NOT however is testified to very many times. AMEN

And as a FYI, here is what the BIBLE foretells for those who for ANY reason choose to leave the ONLY Faith and Church that is FULLY God Approved

Hebrews 6: 1-8

[1] Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to things more perfect, not laying again the foundation of penance from dead works, and of faith towards God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms,[WAS BAPTIZED INTO THE RCC] and imposition of hands,[WAS CONFIRMED INTO THE RCC] and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly[ACTUALLY RECEIVED JESUS IN CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION] gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God[HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO THE TRUTH OF GODS NECESSARILY WORDS; SINGULAR PER DEFINED ISSUE; NOTHING ELSE IS POSSIBLE] and the powers of the world to come,[GODS NECESSARY FAIR AND JUST PUNISHMENT]

[6] And are fallen away: [UNLESS] to be renewed again to [SACRAMENTAL CONFESSION JOHN 20:19-23] penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate,** and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt.**

DOUAY BIBLE Explanation **[1] The word of the beginning: The first rudiments of the Christian doctrine.

[4] It is impossible: The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fell

So my friend, you might wish to pray about this:o

God BLESS YOU!**

It seems to me you are asking for is a fundamentalist approach to scripture.
Certitude is a very tough thing to have. Even the Church leaves the door open for various interpretations, within the boundary of Tradition.

I always like Pope Benedict’s “dark passages” in Verbum Domini.
w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20100930_verbum-domini.html
Par 42
Any question about difficult Scripture passages must go through the person of Christ, because Christ is the word incarnate and the fulfillment of all things.
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