How can we prove that the crusades weren't wrong?


#46

Perhaps, but you fail to take into account that the crusades may have functioned to contain the advance of Islam. So even though they appear to have been largely failed adventures that merely retained the “status quo,” what you don’t factor in is what the world might now look like had the crusades not been waged at that time in history.


#47

So then you must also believe that only baptized Catholics go to heaven.
Do you see the problem? If you are going to fully implicate Catholicism because Hitler was baptized Catholic then you should be consistent.


#48

Is it even possible to be a Catholic if you have not been baptized?


#49

By desire or by blood.


#50

So it is possible to go to heaven without being baptized?


#51

The Catechism specifically notes cases where one might (no guarantee) go to heaven without baptism, namely baptism of desire, baptism by blood, persons who are invincibly ignorant, and via God’s mercy for babies who die unbaptized. Since the Catechism also is open to the possibility of salvation for non-Christians (noting particularly Jewish people and Muslims) one can presume that God’s mercy might provide a way for them too.


#52

I don’t understand your point here.


#53

Kinda-sorta. My understanding is that such condemnation ended pretty quickly.

Even if the eastern crowd had slaughtered Latins, there really isn’t any call for the sacking of Byzantium. Especially the looting and pillaging of churches in the city. This probably started the downward death spiral of the city.

Let’s also not forget that the 4th Crusaders sacked a smaller Christian city for the benefit of the folks who provided them with transport.


#54

Like so many things in history, it’s very hard to sort out.


#55

No. All those in heaven have died with Christ, and have risen to new life with him. To go “through the waters” with Christ is the only way, because Christ himself is the only way.
Whether that happens in a Catholic baptismal font or by desire or blood is not in our control.


#56

I would say that the Fourth Crusade (1204) was wrong and you cannot prove otherwise. IMHO, it is wrong for crusaders to rape Orthodox nuns and to have sex with prostitutes in Orthodox Churches and to steal millions and millions of dollars worth of gold, silver and jewel artifacts from Orthodox churches and then put them in Roman Catholic churches.
Are you or someone else trying to prove that this was the right thing to do?


#57

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