How come some Protestants really believe

that Catholics won’t be in heaven because they aren’t “saved”…
Seriously, do they really believe that?

And why are Christian kids really “so much better” because they can recite Bible verses? ( got this little “dig” from my own DH’s aunt last night…)

I KNOW better than to believe this … I do not believe this at all…
But it still hurts…

They believe that no-one will be in heaven unless they “get saved”, say the sinner’s prayer, however they express it.

But Evangelical Protestants believe that of themselves as well. It’s either “get saved” for everyone not just Catholics. They only believe in an “invisible church” and church membership does nothing to get people to heaven.

Catholic kids are Christian too it’s not Catholics and Christians. But Protestants do memorise “proof texts” and ignore the rest of the bible, like baptism forgiving sin and “this is my body”.

There are extremists on both sides. Very puffed up with pride of not being catholic or not being non-Catholic. And yes, they do believe this. Methinks both sides are going to quite shocked to see each other in Heaven.

No one’s kids are better than the other. Knowing the Bible is a good thing, no doubt, but just being assured that there is loving God is also a good thing.

It hurts very badly. All you want is to be loved and accepted as a Christian. Shame on everyone who thinks they know God’s mind. How dare we be so bold!!!

There IS good doctrine and errant doctrine. And so it will go until Christ rules from David’s Seat with a Rod of Iron. He will determine the doctrine. Period. Wonderful I say. Can’t wait. No more what if’s, but she’s, what abouts?!

We are either believers or non-believers.

In Christ,

Better question,

Why do they make these remarks about Catholics, but not about our Orthodox or Lutheran brothers who share in some of our beliefs that set us apart from the Evangelical crowd? It’s hypocritical. Or it just shows how little they know about where they came from.

I think, because a fair few of them seem to have a ‘thing’ about the Pope.

The Most Fundamental (in my mind) Creed of Protestantism is that “The Roman Catholic Church is WRONG.” All or most of the other Christian Protestant sects though will all seem to get along, because they have one thing in common: Anti-Catholicism.

Seriously, when was the last time a Methodist
bashed on Lutheranism or the Lutherans bash
on the Southern Baptist Church and so on?

[quote=Judas Thaddeus]The Most Fundamental (in my mind) Creed of Protestantism is that “The Roman Catholic Church is WRONG.” All or most of the other Christian Protestant sects though will all seem to get along, because they have one thing in common: Anti-Catholicism.

Seriously, when was the last time a Methodist
bashed on Lutheranism or the Lutherans bash
on the Southern Baptist Church and so on?

Trust me, brothers, we Lutherans get it too!

I live in a city that has two large non-denominational mega churches. One of them encourages door-to-door evangelism and in my encounters with them, they love to tell me that “you Lutherans held on to too many ‘papist’ superstitions.” We Lutherans take it from both sides - we don’t fit in with the protestant crowd, but we aren’t quite Roman, either:

If Lutheranism represents an “evangelical Catholicism” (a term favored by many confessional Lutherans), its paradoxes mean that it is likewise subject to attack from every side. Evangelicals consider it “too Catholic”—making fun of what they consider its stiff formality, its old-fashioned music, and its ancient liturgy and, more seriously, questioning how Lutherans can say salvation is by faith if they believe in baptismal regeneration and being appalled at the way the pastor says when he gives the absolution that he forgives people their sins. Catholics and Orthodox lump Lutheranism with all other Protestants—in fact, Lutherans are the worst Protestants because they started the dissolution of Christendom.

Within Protestantism, Calvinists attack Lutherans for “not going far enough in the Reformation,” for keeping papistical practices and idolatrous worship. Arminians attack Lutherans for not believing in the freedom of the will and for leaving the door open to anti-nomianism. Charismatics think Lutherans are “cold.” Fundamentalists say Lutherans are strong on doctrine but weak on morals.

And, just as the Lutheran framework seems to invite attacks from every side, Lutherans counterattack everyone else. Lutherans condemn Arminians for not believing in predestination and Calvinists for believing in double predestination. Catholics and charismatics are considered alike in believing that the Holy Spirit reveals himself in human beings, apart from the Word. Fundamentalists are savaged for their legalism. In fact, many Lutherans do not see themselves as being Protestant at all.

Trust me they do.

It’s the big white elephant in the middle of the room that forces them to think about things and makes them uncomfortable :cool:

I live in a large population of Evangelicals and Fundamentalists and my kids go to school and I’m in involved in moms groups with many. I know they pride themselves on the kids memorizing bible verses but its been my experience these kids always treat mine pretty ******. It’s not all of them, not trying to paint all Protestant kids as brats it’s just been a glaring difference to me to see the ones whose parents are most adamant about the memorization of verses are often the weasliest. I’d much rather the lessons of them be written on my child’s heart then pounded into their heads.

Just for clarification I didn’t use the S word there! I used something I would let my five year old say, and it was automatically blanked so now it looks much worse:confused:

I’m glad we don’t get all the finger-pointing :p, but it still doesn’t seem as well-known or obvious as it appears towards Catholics (or maybe it is and I just don’t see it).

Bible verses are actually a fairly recent invention. For the longest time, there weren’t even chapters, much less verses. So everyone was forced to look at verses in context. But even without that, I’m personally content with remembering where things are in general. Is it nice to know that “Love is patient” is in 1 Corinthians 13? Yeah. Do I feel a need to learn exactly where every single passage I like is? With the exception of my favorite Psalms, not really. (Psalms is lllloooonnnngggg…)

:eek: I’d rephrase that if I were you. Protestantism is a VERY large label. It encompasses everything from Lutherans to Fundamentalists to nondenominational to CARM. In my experience, the only people I’ve seen who are actually anti-Catholic are CARM and a nondenominational friend of mine. Everyone else at least accepts Catholics as Christians, and a Lutheran friend of mine even agrees that veneration of the saints is not against the 1st Commandment (he just thinks it’s unnecessary).

Let me explain it to you. Please, I’m going to be blunt so if this comes off as harsh or critical of Catholicism it is not. I’m just laying everything on the table and not beating around the bush.

First, you are not speaking about all Protestants (as you rightly point out). You are speaking about the “born again” types, also known as evangelicals. I’ll call them “born-again Christians” for short.

Second, what evangelicals believe is that a conscience conversion experience is necessary. This is called “being born again” or “getting saved.” Beliefs vary, but the simple idea is that after this conversion experience (if it was authentic) then the person has been born again and is a “new creation.” Fruits and evidence of this new birth should follow.

Third, “born-again Christians” believe that only those persons who can testify to having placed their faith in Christ are members of the church. You are not a Christian if you do not have faith in Christ.

Fourth, this means that, from the perspective of “born-again Christians”, those persons who:

have been baptized (at any age) without having put their faith in Christ

or who had their name listed on a church membership roll without having put their faith in Christ

or who made an inauthentic confession of faith (meaning they said they put their faith in Christ but they really never did)

or perhaps at one time they did have faith in Christ but later lost it and are now in a backslidden state

are not Christians. Either they never were saved or they lost their faith and apostatized.

This fourth point applies to any and all Christians. It applies to Catholics and it applies to other “born-again Christians.” “Born-again Christians” are strong believers that there are many unregenerate people in the churches. Everyone who is a member of the church is not saved. Your status in any particular church means nothing. You could be a the pastor, deacon, or Sunday school teacher and still be unregenerate. It doesn’t matter. Man looks at the outward appearance. God looks at the heart.

For many “born-again Christians”, the Catholic Church is one of those churches that places more emphasis on the outward things. They see the Catholic Church as believing things like: “if you’ve been baptized, you’re a Christian whether you have faith in Christ or not.” “Born-again Christians” would never lump all the members of their churches into the “Christian” category. They always recognize that while people may affect a Christian persona, they may not be truly regenerate.

Well, this is simply bad manners never mind anyone’s theology. It’s her way of trying to seem superior to others. Ignore it, I say, and pray for her.

Take a moment and google the title “What’s wrong with the Lutheran Religion”. On it, the author, David J. Stewart says in the first line:

  • To get right to the point, the Lutheran “religion” came out of the Catholic religion (often falsely so called a “church”). However, the Catholic religion did not come out of the Lutheran religion. *

Now, actually, except for the little parenthetical polemic, I agree and consider it a compliment. If one reads on, one finds he doesn’t mean it that way.

Feelin the luv. :stuck_out_tongue:


That’s it. The pope is a visible manifestation of the CC.

Orthodoxy is still not heavily recognized in the west - I think it important to make clear that this thread is probably most reflective of the United States - at least in terms of theology, etc.

And Lutherans have Luther, quite frankly. Many of these folks think Luther was great. Not sure why they overlook regenerative infant baptism, real presence, priestly absolution, etc. :shrug:


I grew up Protestant and I never heard anything negative about Catholicism. It’s pretty arrogant to assume that someone’s religion is just all about being against yours. The fact is most protestants are too busy being protestants to care much about catholics one way or another.

I did however notice big rivalries between denominations. Methodists don’t like much of anyone because of alcohol, Baptists, particularly southern Baptists are often bashed as being arrogant and extreme. Lutherans rip each other apart so much that other denominations don’t even have a chance to get a word in. The different Synods and the ECLU all hate each other over issues like gay clergy and women ministers.

My mom worked on the local interfaith council to pull together food drives and such. The only people that weren’t disliked by another group was the catholics. She quit because of all the cattiness.

There’s a member on this board who was Catholic and needed to convince his good wife that getting married in the Church was a good thing - so he could receive Holy Communion . I met him for coffee and we devised a cunning plan: To use her love of all things Luther to bring her closer to the church catholic.

Through the Holy Spirit, in a few short months they were married in the Catholic church. :slight_smile:

Well the statement “Everyone else at least accepts Catholics as Christians” doesn’t really mean anything if this “Everyone else” believes “The Roman Catholic Church is Wrong”. And it’s great that this “Lutheran friend” of yours agrees that veneration of the saints is not against the 1st Commandment, but what is his attitude about reverencing images? Even if he doesn’t count that as idolatry (which would be nice), he doesn’t exactly represent the entire body of Lutherans.

In light of you’re request for a “rephrase”, I will admit that not every Protestant is exactly anti-Catholic; however, ask a Protestant why the Catholic Church Bible contains the Deuterocanonical Books (or Apocrypha), this Protestant will say because the Catholics added to the Bible. In words that doesn’t sound so big, but in thought and theology that is very troublesome, for imagine the implication of such charges (which aren’t true, by the by).

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