[quote="Nathan_Wagar, post:11, topic:218405"]
Well first off, I think it would seem to prove your case more if the Church used the Deuteros after the supposed council of Jamnia, rather than before. That being said....
The Great codices used liturgically by the Church (earliest versions of the codices date to fourth century) all contain Wisdom.
Vaticanus (B) contained Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, and Baruch, and is dated to the fourth century.
Codex Alexandrinus (A) contained Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, Baruch, and 1-4 Maccabees, and is dated to the fifth century.
Codex Sinaiticus (aleph) contained Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, 1 and 4 Maccabees, dated to the fourth century.
Ephramei Rescriptus (C1), was once a complete copy of Septuagint but was taken apart, partially erased and used over again. It survives only in parts, and contains only the Proverbs, Eccl/Song/Job, Wisdom and Sirach. Dated to the fifth century.
N+V2 (Codex Basilano-Vaticanus and Codex Venetus) appear to be two halves of one codex compiled in the eighth century. It contains Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, Baruch, and 1-4 Maccabees.
Protestant translations, if you do a bit of digging, rely on these codices for their NT book translations, but then refer to the Hebrew Masoretic Texts for the OT.
I will include early Church Citation up to Polycarp:
I Epistle to Corinthians by 1 Clement (Ironically found in codex A) Ch. 3: "For this reason righteousness and peace are now far departed from you, inasmuch as every one abandons the fear of God, and is become blind in His faith, neither walks in the ordinances of His appointment, nor acts a part becoming a Christian, but walks after his own wicked lusts, resuming the practice of** an unrighteous and ungodly envy, by which death itself entered into the world**."
The above is not a direct quote, but strongly alludes to Wisdom 2:24: But by the envy of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are in his possession experience it.
1 Epistle to the Corinthians by Clement I, ch 27: By the word of His might He established all things, and by His word He can overthrow them. "Who shall say to Him, What have you done? or, Who shall resist the power of His strength?" When and as He pleases He will do all things, and none of the things determined by Him shall pass away?
This has a few possible allusions:
Daniel 4:35: All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing; and he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, "What doest thou?"
Wisdom 11:21: For with you great strength abides always; who can resist the might of your arm?
**Wisdom 12:12: **For who can say to you, "What have you done?" or who can oppose your decree? Or when peoples perish, who can challenge you, their maker; or who can come into your presence as vindicator of unjust men?
The allusions above are immediately followed by Psalm 19, so he apparently views Wisdom highly enough to juxtapose it with "canonical" Scripture. Of the three possible allusions above, I believe it most strongly parallels Wisdom 12:12.
1 Epistle to Corinthians Clement 1 ch 55: To bring forward some examples from among the heathen: Many kings and princes, in times of pestilence, when they had been instructed by an oracle, have given themselves up to death, in order that by their own blood they might deliver their fellow-citizens [from destruction]. Many have gone forth from their own cities, that so sedition might be brought to an end within them. We know many among ourselves who have given themselves up to bonds, in order that they might ransom others. Many, too, have surrendered themselves to slavery, that with the price which they received for themselves, they might provide food for others. Many women also, being strengthened by the grace of God, have performed numerous manly exploits. The blessed Judith, when her city was besieged, asked of the elders permission to go forth into the camp of the strangers; and, exposing herself to danger, she went out for the love which she bare to her country and people then besieged; and the Lord delivered Holofernes into the hands of a woman. Esther also, being perfect in faith, exposed herself to no less danger, in order to deliver the twelve tribes of Israel from impending destruction. For with fasting and humiliation she entreated the everlasting God, who sees all things; and He, perceiving the humility of her spirit, delivered the people for whose sake she had encountered peril.
In the above, "Blessed" Judith is compared with another "canonical" figure, Esther as an example of being strengthened by the grace of God, as an example to the Corinthians. Interesting. This is a bit more than just an "historical allusion." The "Blessed" is also significant since the only other times in his epistle that Clement uses "blessed" is regarding "Blessed Paul" and "Blessed Moses."
Very helpful. VERY! The information on the different Codex's will require more work on my part to get to a decent understanding of them. My understanding through research tells me they are the oldest actual real manuscript from that time. The individual I am in debate with has used this term Codex a number of times and tries to explain that is how we got our "Catholic Bible" but he somehow got his from "Textus recettus" which is Latin for receiving the text. He tries to explain his bible has noting to do with Martin Luther, but has been around since the time of Christ.
He says simply for the purpose of this debate, he will accept our bible to move on to an actual bible study. As a Catholic, one who gets educated both by scipture and tradition, I am cationed about getting into a debate using the bible as its only source.