How do I deal with my pro choice wife


#1

Hi,

I don’t really have anyone else I can ask this question of. My wife and I met about 16 years ago. Married about 15 years ago and have had 3 girls since then. Prior to that, my wife had had an physically abusive relation from which two more girls were born. They are now 23 and 21. The 21 year old has just announced she is pregnant. This is her second time and to a different man. She is in a relationship with neither of the fathers.

My won’t encourage her to either have the baby, nor abort the baby. She makes meaningless arguments. I know she is pro choice. I am strictly prolife.

Even if I love her, how do I stay married to a woman who openly tells me she will encourage our daughters use contraceptives and allows our children to have abortions with so much as a “have you thought about adoption”.

Anxious.


#2

[quote="paxomatic, post:1, topic:217016"]
Hi,

I don't really have anyone else I can ask this question of. My wife and I met about 16 years ago. Married about 15 years ago and have had 3 girls since then. Prior to that, my wife had had an physically abusive relation from which two more girls were born. They are now 23 and 21. The 21 year old has just announced she is pregnant. This is her second time and to a different man. She is in a relationship with neither of the fathers.

My won't encourage her to either have the baby, nor abort the baby. She makes meaningless arguments. I know she is pro choice. I am strictly prolife.

Even if I love her, how do I stay married to a woman who openly tells me she will encourage our daughters use contraceptives and allows our children to have abortions with so much as a "have you thought about adoption".

Anxious.

[/quote]

Is your wife Catholic? You didn't say. And you said she has allowed your children to have abortions - have there actually been any?

Have you been spending a lot of time with your 3 daughters? Have you shown them how a man should be treating them, and that staying pure until marriage is what God intends for them no matter what their mother supports? I know it isn't easy when you have the other parent supporting the world's view, but YOU are the more important parent when it comes to your daughters' view of their sexuality and the issue of chastity. If you are doing your job, they won't be looking for love by having sex.

Do you have any influence over the older daughters? They were young when you married their mother. If you two have been in different worlds on this subject your whole marriage, it's a shame and she is not being a Catholic in her support of birth control.

Is the pregnant daughter leaning toward keeping the baby, adoption, or abortion? Time to show her how old her baby is and what it looks like. How any mother could consider abortion after already having a baby, I just don't know.


#3

You must take the lead on instructing your daughters in pro life values. The information is all out there-- fetal development, moral teaching, etc.

As for the daughter who is pregnant, you must also speak up for this life. Encourage her to get counseling from an objective third party, such as Catholic Charities, on whether or not she should make a parenting plan or an adoption plan. The objectivity of a third party will be helpful to her. Counseling will be helpful to her. You must also work on her self-worth, which seems to be very low. Talk to her about chastity, even if you haven’t up until now.

Lead by example in the faith.


#4

I agree with the others about taking the lead with your daughters. I recall seeing a study a year or so ago that said that, statistically, children are much more likely to remain in the faith if their father is strong in his faith than if the mother is strong in hers. So do not underestimate your ability to influence.

That said, it seems the question that is most weighing on you is how to live with a woman who has such a different worldview on such an important thing. I won’t pretend to counsel you in that matter. I can only imagine how difficult that would be. I would encourage you to talk to a priest whom you trust about it. And, of course, pray for her earnestly and be the best Catholic husband you can be.


#5

Get involved with the pregnant daughter’s Dr. visits, try to get her to look at pictures on the internet of what stage of growth her baby is in every week, and include the younger girls so that they can see the little tiny features and know this is a real baby. As a last resort, you can find a video of an actual abortion taking place with the little camera inside watching the whole sickening process. I don’t have the stomach to watch it.

Pray for your wife is about all you can do for her right now. She truly just can’t see the truth.


#6

Take your daughter for an ultrasound immediately -show her the life she has inside of her. Please pray hard for your wife. Let your daughter know that if she wants to live with your support she will not do this. It is murder.


#7

Oh how I wish we had a consistent ethic of life. If we valued life from womb to tomb then the answer would be found in Genesis 9:6 - whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person’s blood be shed. It may sound harsh but the death penalty would apply if society identified life from conception to natural death and it would be a strong deterrent to abortion.


#8

We DO have a consistent life ethic, the problem is that it’s not taught very well or not at all.

Paxomatic, I would strongly encourage you to start developing a relationship with your daughters. Oftentimes young women seek out unhealthy relationships with men as a way to fill a “void” that they couldn’t have with their fathers. Granted that doesn’t happen to everyone and you don’t always have to have been abused (not saying you ever did anything like that!) to feel that you never had a healthy and close relationship with your father. I am speaking from experience, as I never had a healthy or close relationship with my father.

And even more important, I would get to the heart of why your wife is pro-choice. I am a former raving-feminazi pro-choicer (I was extremely feminist in my beliefs, to the point where I would accuse men of perpetrating or wanting to perpetrate acts of injustice to women. And perhaps I was a little paranoid?) who has now become pro-life.

My pro-choice stance really, REALLY bothered my husband but I can tell you he didn’t handle it in the best way. His tactic (and please don’t do these things) was to present me with pro-life pamphlets, readings from our Catholic newspaper, have tv programs or movies which a pro-life example, etc. I found it ingratiating and insulting. I felt as if my intelligence was being rolled over, and that I didn’t have the brains to think for myself.

What I did was slowly over time, looked at the issue from a logic basis. Through my own thinking, I have realized that there is no “middle ground” on abortion. We cannot decide that “sometimes we can kill a baby, and sometimes we can’t, depending on such and so.” I still struggle with issues such as rape and incest, and I may always struggle with that but preferably, I know that I would want to see someone choose life. I discovered that one cannot call her or himself pro-life yet think it’s okay for another person to be get an abortion because it’s “their choice.” This is akin to saying that in the past, people may not have liked slavery, and although they may have chosen to not have slaves because they felt it was wrong, other people should be allowed to make “that choice.” Slaves weren’t considered real people, just as unborn babies aren’t considered real people.

I would urge your wife to look at this issue from beyond one of personal feelings. Often pro-choice viewpoints stem from personal feelings, as in one instance if a woman feels that she is entitled to get an abortion, she should be able to get that choice. But in the future when she feels she is truly ready to have a child, she will take the pregnancy to full-term. I personally can’t believe I used to think that way, as it doesn’t make any sense to me anymore.

Maybe what you may also need to do is bypass your wife and instruct your daughters. Show them that you are going to be an involved dad and an involved grandfather. Let them know that you want them to succeed and you want them to feel loved, and they don’t need to go a man’s bed before marriage in order to seek that. I know this may not seem like it, but maybe this situation is a blessing in disguise; the best thing I can tell you is perhaps God is using this as a way for you to rebuild a relationship with your daughters and to show your wife through actions that pro-choice isn’t the answer. Just my opinion.


#9

Since the abortionists have changed the language to pro-choice it may be time to properly define it to your family.

Pro-choice - the choice a woman wants to murder her unborn baby who is denied choice and the protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Use this as a talking point and repeat it as often as you can when the opportunity presents itself.

And Father Frank says - “America will not reject abortion until America sees abortion.”


#10

Yep buffalo! And to OP, have wife and her daughter visit the Priests for Life web site, let them get a good look at abortion.

Why can’t she adopt the child? So many are doing open adoptions now, the birthparents are like aunts and uncles and it just turns out truly great for everyone.


#11

I think the child should be placed for adoption. The daughter can still see the baby if she chooses open adoption, but she isn’t in a place right now to be raising a child. She does not have a husband or even a fiance to be a father to this child. Children need to grow up with both a mother and a father. Fathers especially have such a huge influence on children. Does she have a college degree? A good-paying job to support the child? And there are thousands of couples waiting to adopt newborns. Why not give the child to a couple who can give the child what he or she needs?


#12

Shortly after conception the baby is a collection of cells and is not a full baby yet. HOWEVER, the baby has a plan for this world. I doesn’t matter even if its in the womans body still, the point is that at conception that thing (whatever it is… cells i guess) has a soul!

It has a soul that god has a plan for! I understand why people agree that abortion can be necessary, but think of it like it has a soul and a purpose for its future self. I do see very early staged fetus’s as a blob of cells because they are. This is not a diss, its true. Its an early stage of life. But just because its not a fully functionable human being does not mean it has no soul. The fetus HAS a soul- which makes it just as important as any other human out there. —The only difference is that it cannot live out on its own, but thats okay. Its simply a stage of life, and once it is in the real world it will have a purpose.

I understand where your wife is coming from as I used to be pro-choice until I realized that fetus’s have souls. I guess i just never looked at it from that perspective before. Anything with a soul or being a child of god deserves a chance at life when given an opportunity, don’t you think?


#13

Write to Sister Lucie Marie, SV . She is a Sister of Life and runs the Pro-Life Ministry for the Archdiocese of NY. She’s a wonderful woman and can point you down the right path.

www.sistersoflife.org

Or you can write to us. We have a men’s education program that may help you.

ilovelife@bellsouth.net or br_jay@franciscansoflife.org

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :slight_smile:


#14

Collection of cells does not do it justice. This “collection” has DNA that no other human has making it unique. This “collection” has all the instructions needed. This “collection” is a mini factory onto itself. This “collection” is truly human.


#15

Yep, but it is still a blob of this ‘collection’. (GRAPHIC: if it were to come out, it would be a blob of stuff, but if you were to look into it, yes it would be DNA and cells, obviously)

And incase you didn’t read my post, I said that since it has a soul, it does not make it any less important than me or you. Its just simply a stage of early life.


#16

Youtube has a video of a live abortion. You watch the baby via ultrasound. It’s called the Horror of Live Abortion.

It is very difficult to watch. It’s said that the Dr. that performed this particular abortion. Who had never watched them from this view point was involved with the editing. He became so upset mid editing that he had to leave. He had performed 1000’s of abortions (I think 1000’s), and that was his LAST one.

Women need to see it. They need to know what they are doing EXACTLY!


#17

There was another one called the silent scream or something like that.

Both educational. I think most women know what they’re doing when they get an abortion, they just don’t care.


#18

Well, that’s possible. And certainly true of those that allow partial birth abortion. However, I KNOW people that didn’t have any sense of what was in there. I know a man that cried during the ultrasound of his PG wife, because he reflected on an abortion he was part of. He said he had no idea… never having seen a tiny heart beat or anything like that.

I think it’s of significant note that the abortion dr. who allowed the recording, refused to do another abortion after watching a baby fight to get away from the tools. And you KNOW he knows what he’s doing. But clearly he never even considered that human pain and suffering was to be had by the unborn. NOW how many lives did THAT save! ALL the ones he would do otherwise. Granted some women would find another Dr. IF he didn’t convince them otherwise first.

THAT is significant. And even if you only convince 1% of those that would otherwise have an abortion not to with this type of education… Then it’s worth it. Easily 10,000 lives saved in the US alone. If you can convince Drs and Nurses not to participate, that will have an even larger impact.

And I think if most women “didn’t care”, they wouldn’t suffer severe depression later. And that is documented. They tend to care when they learn afterwards what they’ve REALLY done. They should at least learn it before hand.


#19

We never recommend that you show your spouse any of these videos until you do some groundwork. They can be very counterproductive when used incorrectly. Those of us who do Respect Life Ministry 24/7 always use the orientation, dialogue, show model.

The videos have a positive effect on the person who is ready to see them. They have had very negative effect on those who are not ready to see them and when the person sitting next to them does not have the skills to come to the rescue.

You never know if you’re showing them to someone who is post-abortive. In those individuals who are post-abortive and never said anything about it, these videos can unleash great anger and hostility that is often displaced onto the person who is showing them the video. The poor unsuspecting person is not prepared to deal with this and does not know why he or she is under attack. Another common reaction of the post-abortive person is to open up a flood of guilt and pain, not to mention horrible memories that require the presence of a person who knows how to regulate them so that they do not overpower and paralyze the individual.

When there appropriate preparation for what you’re going to see, these reactions are less likely to occur.

If it’s a couple, it is always advisable that the couple watches it together and before they do, they should watch it with a specific question in mind, so that they are both on the same sheet of music. The goal should be, “Let’s try to understand this, together,” not “I’m going to convert you to my point of view.” When a couple approaches the videos trying to understand the issue, it opens the door for honest and prayerful dialogue. When one spouse tries to convert the other, it may lead to dialogue or to resentment; because one person feels that their spouse is preaching to them. Some spouses don’t take preaching well, when it comes from their partner. On the other hand, most spouses love dialogue with their partner.

Another approach that a spouse can take, when using these videos is to ask the spouse for permission, “Can I show you why I feel so strongly about this?” Once the permission has been given, then the pro-life spouse can move forward, show the video and discuss it. These usually lead to a dialogue between the spouses.

Sometimes there are questions that the pro-life spouse may be unable to answer. This is where they go search for an answer as a couple. They should go to someone who is an expert on these matters. Most priests are not experts on this matter. They have no training on abortion, other than the moral law. They don’t train in healing, biology, medical ethics, Evangelium Vitae and the other finer points. They know the rules and they try the best they can to explain why it is sinful. But they can’t always give the medical fact or the ethical regulations. That’s why the dioceses have offices and experts on the subject. You use them as resources.

Normally, you can go to them and they are happy to sit with you. They also have classes, workshops, literature and other resources that are very helpful. Some have courses that go for six to 12 weeks.

The paramount question in the mind of many people is, “What to do if we decide to allow the pregnancy to progress to its natural conclusion?” People need to know that there are alternatives and what they are. They also need to know that there are support services, from financial to spiritual and where to get them.

The initial answer to the question is easy. Abortion is always a moral evil, no exceptions. The other questions are not as easy to answer and the videos do not respond to them. I would suggest, that since this is a male spouse, that he be well-informed on how to bring up the subject, how to present the video and what the usual questions are, so as to have the right answers or at least know where to find the answers.

That’s why I suggested that he contact one of several groups:

Sisters of Life, Brothers of Life, Priests for Life, Human Life International, the USCCB Family Life, or the local diocesan pro-life ministry.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :slight_smile:


#20

Well its quite sad that these people weren’t educated on this matter.
I know many people who had abortions and are much happier now they don’t have to worry about an unwanted child of rape. Personally knowing that adoption isn’t doing well and many kids are suffering.

But I agree. millions of people know what abortion is, what it looks like, what happens, statistics, all that jazz.

To the OP: Why don’t you have your wife watch ‘silent scream’, and the one the other person mentioned. Need a link? i can send you one if you like…


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