How do I defend Catholicism against the Jewish Faith? They think they are as right as we are, and they say Jesus was not a mighty king and he did not fulfill all the prophecies, how do I defend this, it’s different than defending Catholicism from fundamentalist Christians.
Is Catholicism under attack from the Jews???
I think that a trip to Marty Barrack’s Second Exodus site will be a good start for you. He is a Hebrew Catholic, himself.
[quote=SedesDomi]Is Catholicism under attack from the Jews???
GMTA- my very thoughts when I read the initial post. Normally, they do not get involved with “convesion” except by request and then they are very, very careful about it. (Exceptions that I know of were Elizabeth Taylor and Sammy Savis Jr.).
Read anything by Rosalind Moss…she is a convert from Judaism. God Bless
I can’t imagine what you think you could say that Jews for Jesus hasn’t already said. There is, after all, such a thing as Invincible Ignorance, cultural bias that prevents recognition of Jesus as Messiah. Still, you could start by living your Christian love by doing such things as peeling KKKristians off of Jewish backs and praying for the peace of Jerusalem as Christ commanded.
It will not be easy. I was involved in an interfaith discussion group and learned quickly what Moses meant when he called the Hebrews “A stiff-necked people.”
dizzy_dave: Please remember that the Jews are all very very dear to God’s heart. Like you I am too new to the Catholic faith to be constructive in many circumstances.
My perspective for you is this. If somebody comes to you or me, we can give “I don’t know” as an honest answer. I think we shouldn’t go after others too much at this time (until we finish RCIA / RCIC).
But I do think we can do this. We can strive to repent and live better lives. And to love others. So that they will see a change in us. And that they can see Christ through us and see Christ at work in us. As long as we do that, we don’t need worry about all the technical answers at this time. For me at least, repenting and trying to live a better life is a lot to work on.
There are several major “denominations” of Judaism. And there are some cults based on break-offs from Judaism. Because a person’s degree of commitment to their religion can also vary quite a bit, each person really is a unique case.
I am also unsure, but I think the Pope may have said that we shouldn’t be actively trying to proselytize Jews. Hopefully somebody will know and respond regarding that.
Note to others: dizzy_dave is just about as new as me. I know of him some from other threads in this forum.
It was the American Bishops who said we shouldn’t be reaching out to Jews, and they quickly rescinded that because it’s highly incorrect. Jews are the FIRST people that should be taught about Christ, albeit tactfully, because Christ came to them first. In fact, Christ initially forbade his disciples from going to non-Jews to teach. Jews are not outside the realm teaching by the Church, they are the first step, and should remain so, as that has always been shown by the very actions of God.
[quote=Ghosty]It was the American Bishops who said we shouldn’t be reaching out to Jews, and they quickly rescinded that because it’s highly incorrect. Jews are the FIRST people that should be taught about Christ, albeit tactfully, because Christ came to them first. In fact, Christ initially forbade his disciples from going to non-Jews to teach. Jews are not outside the realm teaching by the Church, they are the first step, and should remain so, as that has always been shown by the very actions of God.
My recollection is that the Catholic Jewish Commission has stated at both of its last meetings that the Jewish convenant with God is indeed still in effect and I believe it was Cardinal Lustiger who was quoted as saying that we should quit trying to convert Jews and understand that they have their own covenant. This led to a great deal of specualation among some Catholic writers as I recall, as to when the “two covenants” came into being offiically.
Why, then, did Jesus specifically preach to the Jews? If their covenant was a saving covenant, then why was Christ so adamant about the damnation of those Jews who rejected him in his day? The Church does not teach that there are two seperate saving covenants, and anyone who proclaims that is out of line with current teachings; Even a Cardinal can err in such matters.
It’s true that Jews enjoy a special place in God’s plan, and that their work isn’t finished, but that’s no reason to believe that they are not called by their own Messiah to come into the Church that God founded upon them. Even Paul wrote of the fallen away branches returning and making the tree greater, not of a seperate tree for Gentiles. Until I see some definative change in the teachings from Rome on the matter, I’ll stick with the truth of the Catechism and the ages long practice and traditions of the Church.
I must stress that the Church is Israel, not some seperate entity. The Messiah is/was the hope of Israel, and the Church is the continuation of the Messiah’s teachings. It is the modern Jews who have fallen away from God’s promises, or have at least failed to recognize its realization. Why should we deny them the promise that God made specifically to their ancestors, and therefore deny them the Messiah that they’ve been waiting for for literally thousands of years? It’s an act of compassion and mercy to show them that their hope has been realized, and that the Messiah has come.
Incidently, I recommend everyone to check out the Hebrew Catholic website, specifically hebrewcatholic.com/FaithandTheology/catholicteaching.html
Most Jews do not practice the Jewish religion, except maybe a yearly Passover seder get together with family, and Chanuka gift exchanges. A very small percentage of ‘Jews’ are religious.Judaism has been almost reduced to a relic religion, with it’s practitioners almost museum pieces.
How many Jews today keep a Kosher kitchen or observe the Sabbath? Not many…
[quote=WhiteDove]Most Jews do not practice the Jewish religion, except maybe a yearly Passover seder get together with family, and Chanuka gift exchanges. A very small percentage of ‘Jews’ are religious.Judaism has been almost reduced to a relic religion, with it’s practitioners almost museum pieces.
I think more than a few rabbis would argue the point with you as their synogogues are alive, well and full.
[quote=WhiteDove]How many Jews today keep a Kosher kitchen or observe the Sabbath? Not many…
The Hassidim and Orthodox Jews do and if you are in an area where a community of them live it is “ordinary” - probably most of us in the US see Reform Jews and while like the rest of religious groups today, they have a goodly share of secular or cultural members, they can also point with pride to many of their synagogues and affiliated organizations such as Hadassah, etc.
[quote=Ghosty]Why, then, did Jesus specifically preach to the Jews? If their covenant was a saving covenant, then why was Christ so adamant about the damnation of those Jews who rejected him in his day? The Church does not teach that there are two seperate saving covenants, and anyone who proclaims that is out of line with current teachings; Even a Cardinal can err in such matters.
An interesting statement from The 18th International Catholic-Jewish Liaison Committee Meeting
Buenos Aires, July 5-8, 2004
As we approach the 40th anniversary of “Nostra Aetate” – the ground-breaking declaration of the Second Vatican Council which repudiated the deicide charge against Jews, reaffirmed the Jewish roots of Christianity and rejected anti-Semitism – we take note of the many positive changes within the Catholic Church with respect to her relationship with the Jewish People. These past forty years of our fraternal dialogue stand in stark contrast to almost two millennia of a “teaching of contempt” and all its painful consequences. We draw encouragement from the fruits of our collective strivings which include the recognition of the unique and unbroken covenantal relationship between God and the Jewish People and the total rejection of anti-Semitism in all its forms, including anti-Zionism as a more recent manifestation of anti-Semitism.
Since Jews don’t proselytize, I don’t see why Catholics have to defend their faith against Jews. I don’t see large numbers of Jews trying to convince Catholics of the error of their ways. Judaism believes that all righteous peoples who believe in God have a place in heaven.
Do you mean that you like to get into religious arguments with Jews or that you personally want to convert Jews? This is a different question and some of resources mentioned above may be helpful to you but not to interfaith relations.
The document metioned above “Reflections On mission and Covenant” (not actually from the US bishops but by an informal USCBC committee of theologians and Jewish leaders) is indeed deeply flawed and the bishops as a group have distanced themselves from it. It basically came about because of the hand-wringing being done in anticipation of the expected anti-Semitic violence that was going to happen when Mel Gibson’s “The Passion” was going to be released (of course this violence never happened). For definitive statements about what the church teaches about the Jews see the above-mentioned Nostra Aetate (ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V2NON.HTM ) and the recent Dominus Iesus (ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFUNICI.HTM ). For apologetics against those Jewish apologists who try to dissprove the claims of Christianity (yes, there are individuals and organizations actively involved in this), see Dave Armstrong’s website found at ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ130.HTM.
Finally there is an excellent new book by Jewish convert to Catholicism Roy Schoeman called “Salvation Is From The Jews” which may answer many of your questions. The website for the book is www.salvationisfromthejews.com.
I read and loved “Salvation is From the Jews”, and I recommend it for everyone, espescially Catholics. I was working towards Orthodox Judaism when I came to the Church, and I find it sad that so many people implicitly reject the Jewish faith by saying that the Messiah, the Jewish Messiah, didn’t come for the Jews. Put simply, if Jesus didn’t come to make the Jews into Christians, then Jesus is not the Messiah, and should not be followed!
There is a big difference between forcing Jews to be Christians, and bringing the great news of the Lamb of God that has come to bring about the New Kingdom of Israel. Jews should be encouraged to keep their unique cultural heritage, but they should also be shown the beauty of their Church, the Catholic Church. The Church is the New Temple, and far from having a new and different covenant, we represent the entirety of God’s covenant with the Jews; the promise of salvation and the Messiah. The Jewish faith is about serving God and awaiting the Messiah, and the Messiah is here. The Catholic faith is NOT a seperate religion from Judaism, espescially Temple Judaism, but rather complete Judaism. Saying otherwise is saying that the Messiah is not with us.
[quote=dizzy_dave]How do I defend Catholicism against the Jewish Faith? They think they are as right as we are, and they say Jesus was not a mighty king and he did not fulfill all the prophecies, how do I defend this, it’s different than defending Catholicism from fundamentalist Christians.
Let me guess… you’re talking about Jews who don’t want to be Catholic, not Jews who want you to be Jewish. Or maybe Jews with a sense of humor? (Like my friend who, tongue in cheek, referred to the New Testament as the “fiction” section and the Old Testament as “nonfiction.”)
If you’re talking about not allowing Jews to needle you about living out of the “fiction” section of the Bible, I would guess that Jews for Jesus are your best bet. Not surprisingly, however, they are not the most popular kids on the Jewish block. Tread most carefully, here, dear friend. Jews have an ethnic memory of Christianity that has much to do with pogroms and ghettos. They deserve particular diplomacy stemming from that count, if none other.
Remember, all Catholics/Christians are Jews who have been blessed by God’s grace, because we have come to know the “Truth, the Way and the Life”. Sin is man’s greatest enemy, and 2000 years ago, the Jews thought it was the romans, thus expecting a king to… Well I am preaching to the choir here aren’t I.
Let us always keep praying for those who have yet to accept our Lord Jesus as their Saviour and God.
Blessed is the name of Jesus forever
**about catholicism ** dizzy_dave: hi,
most important is prayer, comment them to God and the mother of christ.defending catholicism those not call for argurement for we achieve no result bcos both we not listen,all u do is if they come to just tell them that christ came to fulfil the scripture and join back fallen man to God while other prophet prepared the heart of men by tell them they must repent or face the anger of God, christ preach repentance and love.using his blood as the sacrifies instead of animal thereby fulfiling his missionreconsiling man to God.
**about catholicism ** :caholic is universal the church of christ founded upon a solid rock. :dancing: :tiphat:
NOTE: you convince them by your examplary life live a good catholic life there you preach more to them.