How do I get someone to understand the difference between abortion and war.

It seems that I run into a lot of people who think that such issues like the war in Iraq and the economy hold the same amount of weight as abortion. When abortion is a million times worse! There is no comparision. None, Nadda! But people don’t seem to understand. What would be a good way of explaning the difference of severity to them.

You Pray.

I also can’t understand how a war, no matter how heinous, can be compared to the murder of innocent babies. Its apples and oranges to me. I’ve heard Patrick Madrid put it this way, if we had a political figure who was charismatic, intelligent, the best guy in every way except that he wanted to kill Filipinos carte blanche, just because they we’re potential burdens to us(yes I’m Filipino) would it be ok for us to overlook that flaw, and vote for him. If they say No, then how is that different from Babies, if they say yes, then the Devil has a strong hold on them and only Prayer and Fasting will help.

Assuming you’re talking about the Presidential election, it’s a lot more complicated than that. For instance, Roe v. Wade can only be overturned by the legislature via a constitutional amendment, which the President and the Supreme Court have little say over. Although technically the Supreme Court could overrule their prior decisions, this is almost guaranteed to fail since justices need to be confirmed, once again, by the legislature.

It’s conceivable that someone might vote for a presidential candidate who is against war, which he can change, over one who wants to repeal Roe v. Wade, which he can’t change.

GOD BLESS YOU!!!:thumbsup:
I can’t even begin to tell you how many times I’ve said this! I wonder if the problem is that most people do not understand the differences and powers of the 3 branches of government, or what?

If I really wanted to overturn the pro-choice legislature via political ways, which I have serious concerns with, then I would tackle the Legislature - CONGRESS ELECTIONS - NOT PRESIDENTIAL elections which are more like glorified polls about their opinions, with little power, other than persuasion…while SENATORS & REPRESENTATIVES CAN overturn pro-choice legislature.

I still find that other ways would be preferable and more long-lasting. If we did achieve the reversal politically, it would soon re-bound due to the tragic events that would follow.

However, if we achieved the reversal by simply eliminating the need for abortions, via social work and education, then the LACK of DEMAND for abortions would drive the legislation as a natural progression.

Eliminating the political /legal right while the DEMAND is HIGH, makes no sense and can cause too much social unrest and tragic consequences for women and families…which is what we are trying to avoid by outlawing abortion to begin with…

Maybe if you are able to explain why in your opinion one human life is worth more than another just as human life?

You have to admit it can get “tricky”…when I saw little kids missing limbs, bloody, in pain and dying in Irak after our bombings over civilians…I did wonder how was THAT different from an abortion?

Please, DO explain it to me, if you know the difference…politics aside.

The problem comes when the opponent wants to do the EXACT same thing but to another group of people…that’s the issue at hand…

“How do I get someone to understand the difference between abortion and war?”

This is a difficult question that has plagued mankind throughout the ages. There is only one question that is more difficult that this:

“How do I get someone to understand the difference between a chair and a giraffe?”

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Looking at the last 5 years, It’s a matter of proportion.

5 years of war and 5000 soldiers were killed.

4000 abortions per day in this country x 365 days x 5 years = 7,300,000 babies were killed

NO WAY can anyone see them as equal weight.

Since Roe v Wade in 1972, we have killed 1.5 million babies per year x 37 years = 55 million babies killed just in this country.

In WWII all the countries combined lost between 50-70 million estimated. Since Roe v Wade we’ve killed 55 million babies just in this country

Here is the Difference in my eyes. War, while a horrid thing, is sometimes a necessary and a good thing.

Would I go to war to Protect my Home, yes. Would i go to war to protect the ones i love, with out Hesitation. Would i go to war to protect my Church, You bet! Would i go to war to Kill innocent babies? He.ll NO!

Some wars are fought for good reasons, Like Love, and Honor, Some are fought for down right stupid reasons, Like a pig accidentally breaking a fence and eating in some one else’s yard. Nothing in this world, absolutely nothing, in this world can warrant the death of a Child.

Would I go to War to Protect the Rights of Innocent Children and fight for the Outlawing of Abortion and Very strict punishments even capital Punishment for Abortion… Were do i sign up…

I guess I’ll state the obvious–God sanctions just war all through the Bible, and the Revelation closes with war and the destruction of unrepentant sinners. God never sanctions abortion and speaks of the high value of life in the womb. God sanctions the execution of people guilty of certain crimes, but he condemns those who harm the innocent. But the advice of prayer is the key! But in an imperfect world full of sin there is always going to be those who are hurt by the consequences of others’ sin, and war is a prime example.

This is TRULY horrible! I know that it’s also wrong to perform surgery to avoid pregnancies…but I can’t help thinking maybe people should do that instead! :shrug:

What really makes me so sad is that a lot of the women I know have had abortions that I know of…and for the most petty reasons you could possibly imagine! [travels, one was wanting to leave husband for another, and the most common - they had just gotten a “tummy tuck” and spent a few thousand $ to look this great!..of course, more sex brings pregnancy…]:rolleyes:

Every day, I pray for abortions [and war and many other evils] to end…and to end “for good” which in my opinion will take a social transformation by education and change in lifestyles and flexibility when things just go “wrong” [especially of the young]. We can’t be hypocritical here…

If that transformation doesn’t happen prior to the end of abortions, the social ramifications could be pretty horrible…more child abuse and killings, more homeless families, more prostitution and drug abuse among poor mothers, etc.:frowning:

However, the women that I’m talking about that I know…none of them are the typical poor, uneducated, single mothers one hears about.

What do we do to convince the affluent, educated, married women, who live for looking like models [maybe they think they must in order to keep hubby?] and therefore, constantly at the cosmetic surgeon’s office…from having abortions?

It would probably be useless to go into a debate of the definition of “just war”…and whether it applies to one we still don’t understand the causes for…since we keep hearing none of the causes provided really existed…

That aside, the problem is the civilian casualties…and killing is killing…and innocent victims are innocent victims…

If the key for you is whether the children are still in the womb or already born, [because plenty of innocent children were bombed!], then, think plenty of pregnant women [with unborn children in the womb] were also bombed…isn’t that abortion? Just that they didn’t seek it …we just delivered it…

I’ll accept a “just war” when someone makes certain all the innocent elderly, pregnant women, children, the sick, the handicapped, the infirm, etc are way out of harm’s reach when we attack…otherwise…what makes that a “just war” is beyond me!

And, I pray over 1 hr every day at the Adoration Chapel in front of the Blessed Sacrament…[including for an end to abortions]…so prayer is not helping me understand this “clear cut” argument of when killing isn’t killing…:rolleyes:

When I quoted the stats for WWII, it was total deaths, all sides, military and civilian.

With regards to the last 5 years, the US is far more surgical in combat than war was in 1940. Bottomline, War has NOT done even near the damage abortion has.

Explain :frowning:

What really makes me so sad is that a lot of the women I know have had abortions that I know of…and for the most petty reasons you could possibly imagine! [travels, one was wanting to leave husband for another, and the most common - they had just gotten a “tummy tuck” and spent a few thousand $ to look this great!..of course, more sex brings pregnancy…]:rolleyes:

Every day, I pray for abortions [and war and many other evils] to end…and to end “for good” which in my opinion will take a social transformation by education and change in lifestyles and flexibility when things just go “wrong” [especially of the young]. We can’t be hypocritical here…

If that transformation doesn’t happen prior to the end of abortions, the social ramifications could be pretty horrible…more child abuse and killings, more homeless families, more prostitution and drug abuse among poor mothers, etc.:frowning:

However, the women that I’m talking about that I know…none of them are the typical poor, uneducated, single mothers one hears about.

What do we do to convince the affluent, educated, married women, who live for looking like models [maybe they think they must in order to keep hubby?] and therefore, constantly at the cosmetic surgeon’s office…from having abortions?

If nothing else has worked so far, Tell them about hell and that it is possible to go there based on our actions.

Just so you understand something. The bible clearly states in the Orginal Hebrew, THOU SHALL NOT MUR.DER!

There is a difference between mur.der and Killing. King David, was a Man after God’s Own heart, and he killed Hundreds of Men in war, The only time it was credited to him as a sin, was when he killed Uriah, Bethshebba’s Husband, because he Murd.ered him.

Abortion is very much a War. Unfortunately the only Causalities are the babies, right now. But people in this country, America, Can never ever say War is an Evil Thing, because if you remember your history, America is the Original Terrorist, Boston Tea Party. We fought the American Revolution because England was being unjust and Several Other things. We started the war that gave us the ability to live in a country were it is not illegal to Own a bible. Unfortunately in our Peoples, as Bruce Wayne said in Batman Begins, "it takes Drastic Examples to shock people into action. People seem to forget that we come from a Nation Forged in Warfare. England Fought so many battles, Just and Unjust, that ww1 and ww2 do not compare.

How ever to say that there is no Unjust war, is Ludicrous. Here is why. I dare any one here who says there is no unjust war and the next time this country gets pulled into a war, Go pick a gun and take the place of one of those soldiers, so that a family does not lose a father, Father does not lose a Son, a wife does not lose a husband. People who say there is no Unjust war, Forget the blood that built this country.

Now, abortion, I am not in any way discounting the mur.der that goes on in this country and sooner or Later, it will either break or God will have enough. I feel very strongly about Abortion. I feel the people that have abortions(Unrepentently) and the people that support them, will not even be judged, but will be utterly destroyed, but not before God tosses them to the Angels that were meant to protect the little ones. When an abortion happens we not only grieve the heart of Jesus to the point of death, and grieve the heart of our Mother Mary, so much that she her self comes to our world and carries each boy or girl to heaven, She has a large job these days, we also grieve the ones whom are meant to protect them, enough to anger and wrath. Not only we have have the wrath of God, but the Wrath of his servants.

These Issues are Both equal, There is how ever one big difference, we can see an end to a war. But I do not see an end to the War against Abortion, any time soon.

I don’t think you, or I could convert these women. God could. But we live in a different social spere than these beings. From observation only, I would say they have been long converted to their own faith of relativism and self indulgence.

As I said, only God, the Holy Spirit, can make a conversion of these people. We can talk til we are blue in the face, explain, give sources and effect no change. Just look at some posters on this thread, who list themselves Catholic and others, going from thread to thread, asking the same questions, giving the same arguments to support their ideas of morality Nothing changes in their solidification of their theories. All we can do is pray for them. Logic and truth make no difference.

Check out the wars God sanctioned in His biblical record and note the casualties. Check out what he says about the final war and those who are on the wrong side. And yes, it is ‘Thou shalt not MURDER’ There is another Hebrew word for mere killing.

So you are saying it is more moral to vote for a blatently pro abortion cadidate, such as bo, who has said his litmus test for filling any Supreme Court vacancy will be s/his voting record supporting abortion as compared to a candidate who believes in restricted abortions and would judge individuals to fill SC vacancies on qualifications for the post? That these would likely be pro life judges? Because Roe vs. Wade cannot be overturned? We were close to being able to do this, but bo took over the US and look where that “opportunity” has gone. Vanished.

The point is that the President is NOT the person in charge of changing laws, that power belongs to Congress! And, Judges INTERPRET laws, they don’t CREATE them—why do we keep missing the boat on this?

I doubt that we were “close” to overturning Roe vs. Wade at all. It would take both chambers agreeing on that, and all we had was “nice rhetoric” from someone who had no power to do much about it…but as commander in chief had a LOT of power to get us in and out of war, at will, with or without evidence to justify war.

Just in case you were wondering, I’m not a democrat, neither did I vote for BO…I’m just explaining that we are not doing the right things if our goal is to end abortions…we are “spinning wheels” and wasting time focusing on those whose job isn’t to change legislation…nor are they able for the most part!

We are just shying away from the daunting job of persuading both chambers of Congress, as pro-lifers very smartly constantly focus on!

Politics aside, how do you suggest we persuade women to not seek abortions? How do we persuade men to not suggest to their women to have abortions when they really don’t want to face 18 yrs of child support? These issues are VERY relevant!

Regardless of laws…the REAL problem is the DEMAND for abortions is EXORBITANT! How did we get here?

The laws are the EFFECT, not the CAUSE for abortions.
Just because alcohol is legal, doesn’t mean I have to go drink…and, making alcohol illegal won’t stop people from drinking either!

What if we focus on making abortions unnecessary and undesirable? Then, as public opinion changes, the laws will as well…since congressmen are so “election-minded”…

Well said, there is no way possible that abortion will ever be illegal in the USA. Even if it was, we would not be prepaired for it, nor would it stop abortion.

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