How do I respond?


#1

When someone calls watching pornography or masturbation "natural"? Unfortunately, many many people have this problem :( (myself included...but thank goodness for the sacrament of confession:thumbsup: )thank you.


#2

[quote="RileyG, post:1, topic:314984"]
When someone calls watching pornography or masturbation "natural"? Unfortunately, many many people have this problem :( (myself included...but thank goodness for the sacrament of confession:thumbsup: )thank you.

[/quote]

I'm assuming that you've already tried arguing from a moral perspective and that they have ignored this.

Point out to them that, even from a purely secular, evolutionary viewpoint, this is wrong. pornography and masturbation would be a waste of genetic material that could be used propagating the species and putting on sex for show is also contrary from that viewpoint, since pregnancy is almost universally avoided. There is little more effective in a debate than arguing from the opponent's view.


#3

Well, they are not strictly wrong in that it's not unnatural to be attracted to someone, to experience sexual desire, and - obviously - it's not unnatural to think about taking a shortcut to satisfy that desire.

However, there is something distorted, *disordered *about watching sexual relationships out of wedlock (be it pornography or lustful scenes in ordinary movies) and about seeking sexual pleasure outside of its proper context (ex. premarital sex or masturbation). It is disordered, because the natural beauty of the marital embrace is so distorted and desecrated in lust, that it takes away the dignity of the spouses and transforms them into two animals having a random encounter. Man is not meant to experience the sexual relationship that way.

And masturbation - or otherwise indulging in lustful thoughts - is disordered simply because it is only a delusional sort of satisfaction - in truth, it is just like any other chemical addiction...we become so addicted to that "high" that we keep seeking it, and the fact that it's free and readily available makes it into one of the worst possible addictions...one that harms us and our loved ones as well, because it transforms the sexual desire from a desire to a fully self-giving experience intended to bring forth into the world a new life, to the selfishness of using someone as a tool for us to feel something.

Clearly, when the latter viewpoint prevails, all sorts of monstrosities are justifiable: contraception, abortion, sterilization, divorce and why not, multiple sex partners, same-sex relations...when it's all about lust, all becomes fair play.


#4

Hi RileyG,

Masturbation is normal - very common, as common in the catholic religion as in all others. Everyone does it - It is no more a moral issue than is the colour of your hair. If any thing studies have shown that male masturbation - has a 'flushing out' effect of carcinogens that may build up in the prostate gland. It's human, natural and normal and healthy.


#5

My response would be "If you think it's just a natural thing to do, you wouldn't have any problem if your mom, your grandma and your wife or girlfriend know that you do it?"

If someone actually does have low enough morals that they honestly believe it's a "natural" thing to do, there is nothing you could say to them other than you'll pray for them. I find it extremely hard to believe anyone really believes it's natural.

The arguement against pornography is simple. If your daughter told you she's becoming a porn star, would you be so proud of her you'd brag to all your family and friends? If not, don't try to use the "it's a natural thing" arguement.


#6

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:4, topic:314984"]
Masturbation is normal - very common, as common in the catholic religion as in all others. Everyone does it - It is no more a moral issue than is the colour of your hair. It's human, natural and normal and healthy.

[/quote]

Excuse me, seeking the sexual desire outside of wedlock is an intrinsic evil. It may be normal, very common, natural, and human. But it is intrinsically evil because of what it does to man, to family, to society. And its not healthy.

I'd assume your statement "raised Catholic" means you are not practicing the faith? Otherwise this statement is in odor of grave error and must be brought to the attention of the confessor soon.

And by the way, not everyone does it, or at least those who work on achieving the balance and self-mastery of chastity are able to overcome the temptation to masturbate with time and God's grace, with the proper motivation.


#7

[quote="R_C, post:6, topic:314984"]
Excuse me, seeking the sexual desire outside of wedlock is an intrinsic evil. It may be normal, very common, natural, and human. But it is intrinsically evil because of what it does to man, to family, to society. And its not healthy.

I'd assume your statement "raised Catholic" means you are not practicing the faith? Otherwise this statement is in odor of grave error and must be brought to the attention of the confessor soon.

And by the way, not everyone does it, or at least those who work on achieving the balance and self-mastery of chastity are able to overcome the temptation to masturbate with time and God's grace, with the proper motivation.

[/quote]

I am 'raised Catholic' as it is honest, as to my upbringing, my father is a catholic. my mother converted to catholicism. I do not know what the phrase 'practicising catholic' means. I have been an altar boy, been christened in the church, communion , confirmation and been at the death bed of loved 'catholic' family members.

There is nothing 'unhealthy' about masturbation and it is incumbent on any parent to ensure that a vulnerable child who is obviously going through puberty does not 'feel' 'dirty' or immoral. That time of life is tricky enough without any religious intervention - from any religion or god - my own experience is with catholicism. One other poster mentioned family member's knowing. While it is not often discussed over the dinner table - every knows that people masturbate - that is hardly news.


#8

[quote="R_C, post:6, topic:314984"]
Excuse me, seeking the sexual desire outside of wedlock is an intrinsic evil. It may be normal, very common, natural, and human. But it is intrinsically evil because of what it does to man, to family, to society. And its not healthy.

I'd assume your statement "raised Catholic" means you are not practicing the faith? Otherwise this statement is in odor of grave error and must be brought to the attention of the confessor soon.

And by the way, not everyone does it, or at least those who work on achieving the balance and self-mastery of chastity are able to overcome the temptation to masturbate with time and God's grace, with the proper motivation.

[/quote]

Don't confuse masturbation and pornography.


#9

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:7, topic:314984"]
I am 'raised Catholic' as it is honest, as to my upbringing, my father is a catholic. my mother converted to catholicism. I do not know what the phrase 'practicising catholic' means. I have been an altar boy, been christened in the church, communion , confirmation and been at the death bed of loved 'catholic' family members.

[/quote]

Do you go to Mass every Sunday, have faith, receive the Sacraments, etc?


#10

[quote="MyPseudonym, post:9, topic:314984"]
Do you go to Mass every Sunday, have faith, receive the Sacraments, etc?

[/quote]

No - I have only been to mass with my father on occasion when my mum may have been mentioned in the mass or I felt my dad need support. I don't partake on any rituals and have noticed that a lot of the rituals have changed as social mores have changed. He has a lot of anger in him as my sister did not want a catholic funeral when she passed about 9 months ago and I made a promise to her she would get her wish and be allowed to die (of cancer) in peace and with her loved ones around her


#11

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:7, topic:314984"]
I am 'raised Catholic' as it is honest, as to my upbringing, my father is a catholic. my mother converted to catholicism. I do not know what the phrase 'practicising catholic' means. I have been an altar boy, been christened in the church, communion , confirmation and been at the death bed of loved 'catholic' family members.

There is nothing 'unhealthy' about masturbation and it is incumbent on any parent to ensure that a vulnerable child who is obviously going through puberty does not 'feel' 'dirty' or immoral. That time of life is tricky enough without any religious intervention - from any religion or god - my own experience is with catholicism. One other poster mentioned family member's knowing. While it is not often discussed over the dinner table - every knows that people masturbate - that is hardly news.

[/quote]

Practicing Catholic is a nice way to ask someone whether or not he is obeying the precepts of Holy Church or not. A Catholic goes to Holy Mass and follows the teachings of the Church, among which is the fact that masturbation is always morally wrong and always a mortal sin if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

There is quite a lot of unhealthy in masturbation. I know from personal experience. Also it leads to addictions that can wreck a person and a family. Surely we don't want our children to "feel dirty", etc. but we do want them to live a holy and chaste Christian life, and that includes understanding why masturbation is ultimately something to be overcome through a practice of self-mastery. Overcoming the habit of masturbation is an extraordinarily liberating experience. Even if afterwards it still happens every so often due to our natural weakness and inclination to lust, it is never the same thing.


#12

[quote="aprilfloyd, post:4, topic:314984"]
Hi RileyG,

Masturbation is normal - very common, as common in the catholic religion as in all others. Everyone does it - It is no more a moral issue than is the colour of your hair. If any thing studies have shown that male masturbation - has a 'flushing out' effect of carcinogens that may build up in the prostate gland. It's human, natural and normal and healthy.

[/quote]

Here are some considerations you may like to know.

catholicbridge.com/catholic/masturbation.php


#13

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