How Do Saints Hear Us?


#1

How Do Saints Hear Us?

How can the Saints know and hear so many countless intercessory prayers from so many Christians worldwide petitioning them. The question is really one of knowing, not hearing.

It is important for us to remember the fullness of revelation regarding our state of being after our human life is completed. Principle among scriptures revealing our future life is the revelation of the essential nature of God Himself.

Jesus often spoke of His Father (Abba) and of His Holy Spirit.

Matt 28:19
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit.

John 10:38
…but if I (Jesus) perform them, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may realize (and understand) that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.

The New Testament speaks often of the unity of the Godhead.

John 14:10-11
Do you not believe that I (Jesus) am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing His works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.

John also speaks of our union with the Father and Jesus as a fellowship a word from the Greek koinonia which is translated “community” meaning “in-union-with.”

John 1:3
What we have seen and heard we proclaim now to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

Jesus is most specific about our final relationship with Him. He calls it a one-ness.

John 17:11
And now I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, while I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are.

John 17:21-22
… so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one.

The Trinity is a foreshadowing of our eternal life–a oneness with the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We will share the life of the Godhead; as He knows so shall we know.
The Saints already in union, at-one-ness with God share his life and his knowledge.

Paul put it succinctly.

1 Cor 13:12
At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.

John also had an insight that reflected our destiny.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

We know this because it is the unbroken teaching of the apostolic Church since the beginning and that Church was empowered by Christ to teach in his name (Luke 10:16). From the time of the martyrs, Masses were celebrated in cemeteries.

Why?

Because the early Christians took seriously Paul’s teaching that all the members of the Church are also “members of one another” (Romans 12:5) and that nothing—not even death—could separate us from the love of Christ.

Also, they had the example of the gospel itself, which clearly taught that the blessed dead were aware of and concerned about earthly doings (as for example the very dead and very blessed Moses was on the Mount of Transfiguration [Luke 9:28-36]).

So the Church followed this lead and held Mass near the graves of dead saints, asking the prayers and intercession of the dead in Christ since, as Jesus himself said, the blessed dead are alive to God (Matthew 22:29-33).

As to how the blessed dead are aware of us, we don’t know, any more than we know how God raises the dead or multiplies loaves. One common theory is that they know of us “in the Holy Spirit” or, as the Orthodox say, “The saints see us reflected in God’s eyes.”

This is perhaps the best analogy, but we must always remember that it is only an analogy to speak of a mystery.

css.catholicexchange.com/truthtract.asp?qid=250


#2

I think there is also biblical support for the notion that heavenly messengers (angels) take our prayers to their proper destination.

12I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord, and I did the same thing when you used to buried the dead. … 15I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord." (Tobit 12:12, 15)

4From the angel’s hands the smoke of the incense went up before God, and with it the prayers of God’s people. (Revelation 8:4)


#3

Heresy^^^.

The appearance of Moses and EliYah on the Mount was only possible in that Moses and EliYah’s physical bodies never descended into Sheol.

If you read the OT carefully you will discover that the Most High had the bodies of Moses and EliYah taken up.

Other men, including your so called ‘saints’ are no different than you and I. We will die, and descend to sheol awaiting resurrection and judgement.

Btw, the saints do not hear your prayers. However, that does necessarily mean the Most High will ignore them considering many pray to saints or mary in ignorance. You should pray to Yahshua (Jesus)… there is only one mediator between G~d and man— that is Yahshua.


#4

Do you ask fellow Christians to pray for you? That’s all we’re doing in the practice of seeking the intercession of the saints, who are more alive in the presence of Our Lord than anyone you’ve ever asked to intercede on your behalf on this side of eternity.

After all, he’s the God of the living, not the dead.

Furthermore, we do pray to Jesus, and not only the saints.


#5

Hubris can be contagious. Explain to all of us how you know this.

CDL


#6

So your teaching would be that all souls are in sheol awaiting the resurrection and judgement.

Got any support for that hypothesis?

Chuck


#7

The saints are dead… and, they are not omniscient… they can not hear your prayers. Moreover, praying to and/or conversing with spirits is an abomination to the Most High.

Again, praying to saints is sin… and now that you have heard the truth, you may go ahead and live it.


#8

How I know what exactly?


#9

1 Thess 4

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord


#10

They’re dead? I wonder what sacred scripture has to say about this:

Matthew 22:31b-32 (NIV) - “Have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Please try again. You’ve not offered a shred of evidence to support your claim, but we can offer loads to support the Catholic practices in these matters. Show us where the Bible calls prayers to the saints “an abomination to the Most High.”

The arrogance bred of private interpretation of scripture, which also ignores the entire history of the Church prior to the Reformation… care to support your claims, or should I just take it on your (unproven) authority?


#11

Sorry. Don’t see your interpretation here.

Where does it say here that those who “sleep in Jesus” are not in Heaven now?

Chuck


#12

It looks like we are on a need-to-know basis. I’d like to know where where Halleluyah gets his/her inside information from. The Scriptures are couched in mystery. The Bible says that eye has not seen, nor has it dawned on man what it is like on the other side. It is all a metaphysical reality, not an earthly one, so to make authoritative decisions about what is to be believed is as ludicrous as it comes. Even the Church doesn’t propose that, but only passess on what the apostles taught. How can a person comment about something he cannot see or hear. This is why St. Benedict said to work and pray and not to talk.


#13

I refer you to Deut 18:11

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

As for your quoted scripture in Matthew, which is also spoke in Luke, Yashua is speaking to the saducees who did not believe in resurrection or the after-life. He was showing that there is a resurrection for those in HIM for we all live unto HIM. The saduccees were attempting to catch Yahshua off guard with their questioning in these veresus. His response was to confound their wisdom with truth.

You have taken this scripture out of context. the remainder of scripture does not back up you theology on this matter.


#14

Rev. 5:13 shows that those in heaven can hear every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. This is remarkable, but there it is in scripture.


#15

You do understand that you are quoting the OT. Where the dead could not enter into heave until Jesus came to bridge the great divide. So as a Christian we know that Jesus has indeed come and died so that those who have passed will or could enter into heaven.


#16

Look at the post. Don’t be a smart aleck.

CDL


#17

Yes their is only one mediator between God and man. What that means though, is that Jesus is the only bridge through which the prayers flow since He is God. Catholics and Eastern Orthodox never pray outside of the body of Christ Mt 17 at Jesus’ transfiguration, Moses and Elijiah could hear Peter, James and John. James 5:16…says that “the prayers of a righteous man availeth much” and those in heaven are much more “righteous” than are we and surely you can’t say that we on earth are no different than those in heaven.

"One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding."
catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp


#18

eph 4


#19

Hi there HalleluYAH. Welcome to the forums and Christ be with you!

I feel that I need to point out one error here, The Bible does say the Elijah was taken bodily into heaven, but does not in the case of Moses. The story of Moses’ burial can be found in Deuteronomy, chapter 34. Specifically verse 5.

And while what you say about the dead descending into sheol to await judgement is true before Jesus, Catholic belief is the Jesus “opened the gates” so to speak. We believe that we remain alive as a part of the body of Christ. Upon death we will be judged according to our faith and works. There will be a final judgement on the last day.

Some scripture…

**Mark 12:**24 Jesus said to them, “Are you not misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God?
25 When they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but they are like the angels in heaven. 26 As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, (the) God of Isaac, and (the) God of Jacob’?
27 He is not God of the dead but of the living. You are greatly misled.” (Catholic belief that we are ALIVE and IN HEAVEN after death)

Luke 16:19-31 speaks of the judgement UPON DEATH and what happens immediateley after the death of the body. (Catholic belief on judgement upon death, and in support of Purgatory)(It s impotant to note here that Christ had not been sacrificed on the cross as of this passage, so the salvation had not yet happened)

**2 Corinthians 5:**6 So we are always courageous, although we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 Yet we are courageous, and we would rather leave the body and go home to the Lord.
9 Therefore, we aspire to please him, whether we are at home or away.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil. (Catholic belief of judgement according to works and faith)

**Phillipians 1:**20 My eager expectation and hope is that I shall not be put to shame in any way, but that with all boldness, now as always, Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death.
21 For to me life is Christ, and death is gain.
22 If I go on living in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. And I do not know which I shall choose.
23 I am caught between the two. I long to depart this life and be with Christ, (for) that is far better. (Catholic belief the we go directly to be with Christ upon death)

**2 Timothy 1:**9 He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began,
10 but now made manifest through the appearance of our savior Christ Jesus, who destroyed death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, (Catholic belief in immortality)

Peace,
Subrosa


#20

By your own confession above, you have destoyed the RC theology based on Matt 22:32 (I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.).

You yourself have just stated that Yahshua provided the bridge between Yah and man. So, whey then would any pray to another. Did they also provide the proverbial bridge? Of course not.


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