How do SDA interpret scripture in allowing elective abortions in their hospitals?


#1

How does the Seventh Day Adventist church interpret scripture in allowing elective abortions in their church run hospitals? Are there scripture passages that they use in justifying abortion? :confused:


#2

SDAs believe in protecting human life while preserving the personal liberty of women. They believe abortion should only be performed for the most serious reasons. At the same time they respect individual conscience on this matter. They believe the Church does not serve as one's conscience but offers moral guidance. They understand honest differences exist on the question of abortion among Christians. And that God gave fallen humans free will even if it results in tragic circumstances and that abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness.

They believe God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).

That decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).

Finally SDAs believe the Church should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision concerning an abortion. And attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered.

Hope that helps.

adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main-guide1.html


#3

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
SDAs believe in protecting human life while preserving the personal liberty of women. They believe abortion should only be performed for the most serious reasons. At the same time they respect individual conscience on this matter. They believe the Church does not serve as one's conscience but offers moral guidance. They understand honest differences exist on the question of abortion among Christians. And that God gave fallen humans free will even if it results in tragic circumstances and that abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness.

They believe God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).

That decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).

Finally SDAs believe the Church should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision concerning an abortion. And attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered.

Hope that helps.

adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main-guide1.html

[/quote]

A man impregnates a woman, the woman misses her period and by the third month takes a test....
...At what point in time do you understand the baby inside the woman becomes a "person"?


#4

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
SDAs believe in protecting human life while preserving the personal liberty of women.

[/quote]

In order to protect my personal liberty should I have the right to take the life of another if I feel they are threatening that liberty? If the fetus is human life, and it is, no one has the right to take it except the one who made it; God.

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
They believe abortion should only be performed for the most serious reasons.

[/quote]

Regardless of the "reason", the consequences are as serious as it gets for the one being aborted. It doesn't get more serious then death.

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
At the same time they respect individual conscience on this matter.

[/quote]

They need to grow a spine. If I am low on funds should they respect my decision, based upon my individual conscience, to rob a bank? If not, then how can they justify this when it concerns killing my child?

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
They believe the Church does not serve as one's conscience but offers moral guidance. They understand honest differences exist on the question of abortion among Christians. And that God gave fallen humans free will even if it results in tragic circumstances and that abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness.

[/quote]

The fact that we have free will to make terrible decisions does not make those decisions alright. We are suppose to be transformed creatures who keep God's commandments, one of which is "Do not kill".

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
That decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).

[/quote]

Please. You speak of decisions about human life. What about decisions about human death? Should we make decisions about whether or not one of our family members should be killed, all in the context of "healthy family relationships" and with the "support of our faith community"? I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

[quote="CMatt25, post:2, topic:294782"]
Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered.

[/quote]

Well you got that part right. We should assist those mothers considering abortion with the alternative of life.


#5

[quote="Pythons, post:3, topic:294782"]
A man impregnates a woman, the woman misses her period and by the third month takes a test....
...At what point in time do you understand the baby inside the woman becomes a "person"?

[/quote]

If you're asking me, my own understanding has nothing to do with the thread. All I did was provide an answer to the OP from the official SDA website. I'm not SDA.


#6

[quote="CMatt25, post:5, topic:294782"]
If you're asking me, my own understanding has nothing to do with the thread. All I did was provide an answer to the OP from the official SDA website. I'm not SDA.

[/quote]

Would you agree, after reading the SDA statement on abortion, that....
...The Seventh-day Adventist Church has no problem performing abortions in their medical facilities?
...After the long flowery statement ( which was a total dodge ) I get the feeling abortion isn't a very big deal to SDA's?

I assumed that you were SDA given that most all SDA's here don't list that they are SDA...
...Well, what do you think about this?


#7

[quote="Pythons, post:6, topic:294782"]
Would you agree, after reading the SDA statement on abortion, that....
...The Seventh-day Adventist Church has no problem performing abortions in their medical facilities?
...After the long flowery statement ( which was a total dodge ) I get the feeling abortion isn't a very big deal to SDA's?

I assumed that you were SDA given that most all SDA's here don't list that they are SDA...
...Well, what do you think about this?

[/quote]

I think any forum member including our SDA Christian brothers and sisters in Christ should be able to list the religion they are considered to be members of by the church they are members of, without fear of repercussions or of being criticized if that is why they don't list that they are. Though I have no idea why they might not list it. I have an SDA friend and I have no doubt she would list it. And no I would not agree that abortion isn't a big deal to SDAs. If you actually read what I posted, they clearly do not take it lightly.


#8

[quote="CMatt25, post:7, topic:294782"]
I think any forum member including our SDA Christian brothers and sisters in Christ should be able to list the religion they are considered to be members of by the church they are members of, without fear of repercussions or of being criticized if that is why they don't list that they are.

[/quote]

I mean no offense to you when I ask if you have been subject to repercussions here...
...And that is why you don't list anything specific?

The following shows the number for ONE Adventist Hospital...
...If I'm understanding the figures it alone averages 10650 abortions per year.

[quote=http://adventlife.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/investigation-into-our-adventist-involvement-with-the-abortion-industry-by-nic-samojluk/]
I wish we would have the abortion statistics for those twelve hospitals listed above. What I have is anecdotic references to what was taking place in some of them, but I don’t have the hard facts. Nevertheless, I was able to locate a significant amount of information related to one of them: our Washington Adventist Hospital [WAH] in Maryland. Adventist historian George Gainer, provided the following statistics published by the Washington Post:

“As to numbers, participants in the “Pastors’ Protest Against Abortion” supplied the figure of 1,494 abortions performed at Washington Adventist Hospital from 1975 through July 1982. They said that the medical records office of the hospital supplied these statistics.”[6]

This means that our WAH was averaging 213 abortions per year. Some have suggested that all these abortion might have been of therapeutic kind—resulting from rape, incest, and malformations—but the large number suggests the opposite. Even Planned Parenthood, the main provider of abortions in the world, did acknowledge that this kind of abortions represent a mere two percent of all abortions. Arguing that said abortions were all of the therapeutic kind would mean that had the hospital included elective abortions in their program, WAH would have done 10,650 abortions per year. This means that most likely 98 percent of them were of the elective type

[/quote]


#9

[quote="Pythons, post:8, topic:294782"]
I mean no offense to you when I ask if you have been subject to repercussions here...
...And that is why you don't list anything specific?

The following shows the number for ONE Adventist Hospital...
...If I'm understanding the figures it alone averages 10650 abortions per year.

[/quote]

No offense taken. Yes that was why for awhile but due to my experience what I would have listed specifically has become less important to me now.

I understand the 10,650 figure was arrived at by making an assumption. It takes the 213 said to be theraputic abortions and assumes if such abortions nationwide are 2% of the total, then the hospital had to be performing many more abortions. (213 = 2 % of this mythical 10,650 figure.) We don't know this though. As far as we know the hospital may have had a much higher % of theraputic ones in their case. As the writer of the story even said "I don't have the hard facts."


#10

[quote="Pythons, post:8, topic:294782"]
I mean no offense to you when I ask if you have been subject to repercussions here...
...And that is why you don't list anything specific?

The following shows the number for ONE Adventist Hospital...
...If I'm understanding the figures it alone averages 10650 abortions per year.

[/quote]

My head is spinning and not in a good way.

So here is a religion that among other beliefs:

  • holds the Catholic church to be the Whore of Babylon (misinterpreting Revelation)
  • holds the Pope to be the Anti-Christ (more misinterpretation)
  • follows a 19th century prophet that spoke to her dead husband (despite biblical warnings not to conjure up the dead) :eek:
  • Holds almost exclusively to a Saturday Sabbath (more misinterpretation & ignoring tradition)
  • views contraception as permissible (mm&it)
  • allows for elective abortions in their church run hospitals. And thousands of them! :eek::eek:

So where does (misinterpretation of) scripture allow for abortions, the killing of human life? :mad:


#11

[quote="Porknpie, post:10, topic:294782"]
My head is spinning and not in a good way.

So here is a religion that among other beliefs:

  • holds the Catholic church to be the Whore of Babylon (misinterpreting Revelation)
  • holds the Pope to be the Anti-Christ (more misinterpretation)
  • follows a 19th century prophet that spoke to her dead husband (despite biblical warnings not to conjure up the dead) :eek:
  • Holds almost exclusively to a Saturday Sabbath (more misinterpretation & ignoring tradition)
  • views contraception as permissible (mm&it)
  • allows for elective abortions in their church run hospitals. And thousands of them! :eek::eek:

So where does (misinterpretation of) scripture allow for abortions, the killing of human life? :mad:

[/quote]

The murder of babies trumps all of it's other odd doctrines but don't forget about the heretical teachings.....
...Such as God the Father, pre-Incarnate Christ, Lucifer and all the angels having rectums.
...Christ having ONLY a conditional deity which He could have lost IF He sinned.
...And the rancid teaching that had Christ sinned ultimate God ( The Father ) would have eternally annihilated creature christ.


#12

[quote="Pythons, post:11, topic:294782"]
The murder of babies trumps all of it's other odd doctrines but don't forget about the heretical teachings.....
...Such as God the Father, pre-Incarnate Christ, Lucifer and all the angels having rectums.
...Christ having ONLY a conditional deity which He could have lost IF He sinned.
...And the rancid teaching that had Christ sinned ultimate God ( The Father ) would have eternally annihilated creature christ.

[/quote]

I did not know about the rectums. God is spirit...how can this be? Also, SDAs believe that we, the Catholic church will persecute them before the second coming. They literally believe that they will be martyrs because of the Catholic church.

Out of 5 EEKs, this is 3 and perhaps 3 1/2. :eek::eek::eek:


#13

Python also mentioned their heretical and odd beliefs. I don’t know if either of you actually as I do personally know SDAs, have spent time with them, have taken as I have an SDA Bible study course to get to understand their beliefs or not. Even if neither you nor I necessarily agree with their faith beliefs and understanding. But I thought we were to be respectful of other faiths. I’m not sure how you consider granting 3 or 3 1/2 eeks as being respectful. You would not like it if a SDA graded your faith with eeks.


#14

On a scale of 1 to 10 eek's, calling the Catholic church the whore of Babylon and the
Pope the anti-Christ would be at least 11 or 12 eeks in my opinion.


#15

[quote="CMatt25, post:13, topic:294782"]
Python also mentioned their heretical and odd beliefs. I don't know if either of you actually as I do personally know SDAs, have spent time with them, have taken as I have an SDA Bible study course to get to understand their beliefs or not. Even if neither you nor I necessarily agree with their faith beliefs and understanding. But I thought we were to be respectful of other faiths. I'm not sure how you consider granting 3 or 3 1/2 eeks as being respectful. You would not like it if a SDA graded your faith with eeks.

[/quote]

I do apologize for the EEK symbol(s). They were not showing love of my neighbor. Actually, I had a roommate for a year that was a SDA. I can testify that he was a wonderful person but greatly misled by his faith. He ate his veggie burgers and sometime I did as well. Happily. :)


#16

[quote="Porknpie, post:15, topic:294782"]
I do apologize for the EEK symbol(s). They were not showing love of my neighbor. Actually, I had a roommate for a year that was a SDA. I can testify that he was a wonderful person but greatly misled by his faith. He ate his veggie burgers and sometime I did as well. Happily. :)

[/quote]

That's ok Porknpie, we all sometimes fail I think at that. Myself included I am sure. Your veggie burger story reminded me of once having dinner with an SDA friend. It was homestyle served. One of the courses was pork. :) I actually passed simply out of respect for her belief and not to place a stumbling block before her faith. She insisted it was not a problem and that I could have all the pork I cared to eat. But I figured I wouldn't die if I didn't have the pork that night so we both dined on the same meat. :thumbsup:

But now you're making me hungry and it's getting to be dinner time here. :D Peace.


#17

[quote]Originally Posted by CMatt25

SDAs believe in protecting human life while preserving the personal liberty of women.

In order to protect my personal liberty should I have the right to take the life of another if I feel they are threatening that liberty? If the fetus is human life, and it is, no one has the right to take it except the one who made it; God.

Originally Posted by CMatt25

They believe abortion should only be performed for the most serious reasons.

Regardless of the "reason", the consequences are as serious as it gets for the one being aborted. It doesn't get more serious then death.

Originally Posted by CMatt25

At the same time they respect individual conscience on this matter.

They need to grow a spine. If I am low on funds should they respect my decision, based upon my individual conscience, to rob a bank? If not, then how can they justify this when it concerns killing my child?

Originally Posted by CMatt25

They believe the Church does not serve as one's conscience but offers moral guidance. They understand honest differences exist on the question of abortion among Christians. And that God gave fallen humans free will even if it results in tragic circumstances and that abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness.

The fact that we have free will to make terrible decisions does not make those decisions alright. We are suppose to be transformed creatures who keep God's commandments, one of which is "Do not kill".

Originally Posted by CMatt25

That decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).

Please. You speak of decisions about human life. What about decisions about human death? Should we make decisions about whether or not one of our family members should be killed, all in the context of "healthy family relationships" and with the "support of our faith community"? I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

Originally Posted by CMatt25

Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered.

Well you got that part right. We should assist those mothers considering abortion with the alternative of life.
[/quote]

So, CMatt, am I on your ignore list or do you just have no response? Just wondering if you can see through the sugar coating covering the SDA's statement and into the reality of their position?



#18

[quote="SteveVH, post:17, topic:294782"]
So, CMatt, am I on your ignore list or do you just have no response? Just wondering if you can see through the sugar coating covering the SDA's statement and into the reality of their position?


[/quote]

No not at all Steve. You are not on my ignore list. No one is. I wouldn't know if someone was including me in one of their posts if I had anyone on ignore. :shrug: I responded in post #5. Since then the only thing I have said about SDA and abortion was to explain how someone came up with a 10,650 figure.


#19

[quote="CMatt25, post:18, topic:294782"]
No not at all Steve. You are not on my ignore list. No one is. I wouldn't know if someone was including me in one of their posts if I had anyone on ignore. :shrug: I responded in post #5. Since then the only thing I have said about SDA and abortion was to explain how someone came up with a 10,650 figure.

[/quote]

Post #5 was a response to Pythons. If it was meant for me as well then I somehow missed that. So what are your] thoughts on the SDA's stated position from which you quoted?


#20

[quote="SteveVH, post:19, topic:294782"]
Post #5 was a response to Pythons. If it was meant for me as well then I somehow missed that. So what are your] thoughts on the SDA's stated position from which you quoted?

[/quote]

Yes and yours was post # 4. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer it was meant for you too. As post 5 said my thoughts are not the topic of the thread. The thread is about SDA beliefs with regard to abortion. I'm not SDA. The OP wanted some insight into SDA thinking and I merely presented some info from their website. Anyone could have done that. I simply went to their webiste and I think I searched abortion on it. But I think before you begin to be critical of SDA belief, it's best to wait for an SDA to be here to refute you. Not me.


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