How do we interpret this?


#1

“Without father, without mother, without descent, having NEITHER BEGINNING of days, NOR END of life…”

Hebrews 7:3

I have heard that it dis-proves jesus divinty…

id like to hear some opnions:)


#2

I don’t see how it would as Jesus clearly has neither a beginning or an end.


#3

This verse does nothing at all to disprove the Lord Jesus’ Divinity. No doubt whoever would attempt to employ it so is trying to say that because the Lord in His humanity had a beginning (in the womb of Mary) this contradicts claims to His Divinity. This, of course, would expose the ignorance of Christian doctrine that He is both God (no beginning and no end) AND Man.


#4

Hee hee… This is mearly my view only so please tak it as such…

But, how do I view the ending/beginning, god always was issue?

Well, while I am no where near an expert in physics (stopped ad a BS in physics) I do find the issue of time actually answered.

Bare with me for a sec…

Everyone knows about the 3 standard coordinates up/down, left/right forward/backward. (x,y,z)
3 dimensions

we also know about another… Time moving forward (t)

4 dimenstions

(at this point I delve into theory and speculation o scientists, and if there are any scientests reading this and I am wrong, please correct me rightlt so)

now, some scientest theorize there are particles that can travel faster than the speed of light, but can never travel below the speed of light. (tacyons) not all scientist agree with this, but some. anyway, in order for them to exists, the exist in imaginary coordinates, (bad name, in essense, coordanates in their system are like what happen when you take the square root of a negative number, you get an imaginmary number…
sqrt(-4) = 2i, not 2

so, there coordinate system is like this (Xi,Yi,Zi) thats because they have imaginary componets to there coordinates…

now we have 7 dimensions

in this coordinate system, time travels backwards and with an imaginary component (-ti)

That now makes 8 dimensions…

(confused yet?)

ok, so… there is one more set of odd coordinates… Have you ever heard the saying if an ant walks in a strait line on a ballon, he will come back to where he started? well, the 3-d world sits on a 4-d ballon… in otherwords. if you go in a strait line for a VERY VERY long time, you will come back to the point you stated at. (again, only speculation by some scientists) there is a x component, y component and a z component to each of these,

that makes 11 dimensions…

it is possible in the 4d ballon, time also loops, so, like direction, time can loop back on itself… like any loop it has no begining, or end… it jsut is

that makes 12 dimensions

SOOOOO

how does this relate to the question of god not having a begining or end?

man has little conceptual understanding of these dimensions and NO physical understanding of 8 of the 12 dimensions…

when looked at from a big picture, time moves forward, backwards and loops around depending on location, speed, and coordinate. God is the Big picture, so, he has access to each of these aspects… Thus, God is outside of OUR understanding of time… you cna literally make 1 day = 1000 years if you know how to use the differant dimensions

for us to truely understand all the various aspects of time and space god would be like us explaining to virus that there is other suns and solar systems out there…

It is truely beyond our comprehintion…

Take from this what you will, i may be way off, and if my science is, please let me know. Thi is jsut what i remember from long ago and it could have been clouded through time…

In christ


#5

Followup…

So,
Jesus can be born, but still exist without father,mother, in a humanly form because like the father, he also has the ability to use these aspects, and thus, is also outside of time…

LET ME KNOW IF IM BEING HERITICAL


#6

[quote=godsent]“Without father, without mother, without descent, having NEITHER BEGINNING of days, NOR END of life…”

Hebrews 7:3

I have heard that it dis-proves jesus divinty…

id like to hear some opnions:)
[/quote]

Ok, listen to Lesson 4, I believe, of this Bible Study session by Jeff Cavins (if not #4 then #3) - he mentioned that quote specifically with regard to the priestly nature of Melchizedek (except he was speaking from Genesis, but he said it was expounded upon in Hebrews) - suggesting Mechizedek was Shem - but definitely using the quote as the source of the distinction of infinite priesthood as opposed to restricted priesthood…

Whereas the Levites became the Priestly People as a result of their geneology (mother/father) and developed terms beginning at age 30 and lasting so long (a beginning and an end)…

So that Jesus, coming from that line of Shem, again completes the entire cycle of God’s covenant with man because HE is a PRIEST “Without father, without mother, without descent, having NEITHER BEGINNING of days, NOR END of life…” as it was in the beginning…

Or something to that affect…after you listen to the session, let me know if you got the same thing from his discussion as I’ve noted here. I’d really appreciate your input.


#7

By the way, the reference to that passage is about halfway into the bible session…if you want to fast forward to that part…


#8

Is there a list that says what these studies cover?


#9

[quote=jjoshjl]Hee hee… This is mearly my view only so please tak it as such…

But, how do I view the ending/beginning, god always was issue?

Well, while I am no where near an expert in physics (stopped ad a BS in physics) I do find the issue of time actually answered.

Bare with me for a sec…

Everyone knows about the 3 standard coordinates up/down, left/right forward/backward. (x,y,z)
3 dimensions

we also know about another… Time moving forward (t)

4 dimenstions

(at this point I delve into theory and speculation o scientists, and if there are any scientests reading this and I am wrong, please correct me rightlt so)

now, some scientest theorize there are particles that can travel faster than the speed of light, but can never travel below the speed of light. (tacyons) not all scientist agree with this, but some. anyway, in order for them to exists, the exist in imaginary coordinates, (bad name, in essense, coordanates in their system are like what happen when you take the square root of a negative number, you get an imaginmary number…
sqrt(-4) = 2i, not 2

so, there coordinate system is like this (Xi,Yi,Zi) thats because they have imaginary componets to there coordinates…

now we have 7 dimensions

in this coordinate system, time travels backwards and with an imaginary component (-ti)

That now makes 8 dimensions…

(confused yet?)

ok, so… there is one more set of odd coordinates… Have you ever heard the saying if an ant walks in a strait line on a ballon, he will come back to where he started? well, the 3-d world sits on a 4-d ballon… in otherwords. if you go in a strait line for a VERY VERY long time, you will come back to the point you stated at. (again, only speculation by some scientists) there is a x component, y component and a z component to each of these,

that makes 11 dimensions…

it is possible in the 4d ballon, time also loops, so, like direction, time can loop back on itself… like any loop it has no begining, or end… it jsut is

that makes 12 dimensions

SOOOOO

how does this relate to the question of god not having a begining or end?

man has little conceptual understanding of these dimensions and NO physical understanding of 8 of the 12 dimensions…

when looked at from a big picture, time moves forward, backwards and loops around depending on location, speed, and coordinate. God is the Big picture, so, he has access to each of these aspects… Thus, God is outside of OUR understanding of time… you cna literally make 1 day = 1000 years if you know how to use the differant dimensions

for us to truely understand all the various aspects of time and space god would be like us explaining to virus that there is other suns and solar systems out there…

It is truely beyond our comprehintion…

Take from this what you will, i may be way off, and if my science is, please let me know. Thi is jsut what i remember from long ago and it could have been clouded through time…

In christ
[/quote]

Science is understanding the measurable!
Faith is believing the incomprehensible!


#10

[quote=godsent]“Without father, without mother, without descent, having NEITHER BEGINNING of days, NOR END of life…”

Hebrews 7:3

I have heard that it dis-proves jesus divinty…

id like to hear some opnions:)
[/quote]

I don’t understand… This verse is talking about Melchizedek…

Do Catholics believe that Melchizedek was a theophany?

I always figured that “Without father, without mother, without descent, having NEITHER BEGINNING of days, NOR END of life…” meant that his birth and death was not recorded and his parents were unknown.


#11

Commentary from the NAB regarding this verse…usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews7.htm#foot4

Without father, mother, or ancestry, without beginning of days or end of life: this is perhaps a quotation from a hymn about Melchizedek. The rabbis maintained that anything not mentioned in the Torah does not exist. Consequently, since the Old Testament nowhere mentions Melchizedek’s ancestry, birth, or death, the conclusion can be drawn that he remains . . . forever.

Seems like whomever was asserting this as a way to deny Christ’s divinity was really stretching.


#12

[quote=Lazerlike42]Is there a list that says what these studies cover?
[/quote]

Click on the link I provided and then there should be another link on that page to jeff cavin’s site…

If you don’t have time to go through a session now, at least open the audio file, listen to the opening, then fast forward toward the end…he’ll tell you what chapters/books they’re covering in that session and then which chapters/books they’ll be covering in the next.

there’s also this: thebibletimeline.com/BibleStudy/


#13

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.