How do we know that Mary was a Virgin?


#1

Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn’t a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.


#2

The bible say that Mary is "full of grace" which means without sin
Luke 1:27-31 and the virgin's name was Mary. and the angel being come in, said unto her;
'Hail, full of grace the lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought within herself what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call him Jesus"
The word in the original Greek is kecharitomene This word is directly concerned with the idea of “grace” Greek scholars point out that kecharitomene comes from the root word charis, which has a literal meaning of “grace”


#3

[quote="Angela77, post:1, topic:265849"]
Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn't a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.

[/quote]

I.m not sure I understand you. Mary said she was a virgin when told she would conceive and asked how it was possible that it could happen.

The Catholic Church teaches that she remained a perpetual virgin. I believe that the Orthodox and the Coptic Churches also teach the same thing.

Protestants to a large degree believe that after Jesus birth Mary and Joseph had normal relations. There have been Christian groups who believe that Jesus himself was born of the sexual union of Mary and Joseph.

I'm not real sure what you are asking.


#4

[quote="Angela77, post:1, topic:265849"]
Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn't a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.

[/quote]

You should stay away form these other sites.


#5

[quote="Nelka, post:4, topic:265849"]
You should stay away form these other sites.

[/quote]

I disagree in part. If the site is asking honest questions, what's the problem? If it's just a Catholic bashing one, then ignore it.

OP-Honest answer is we don't know. It's a leap of faith. I believe Mary was a virgin before she concieved the Christ. Can I prove it? Of course not, it's just a leap of faith.


#6

[quote="Angela77, post:1, topic:265849"]
Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn't a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.

[/quote]

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.


#7

Mary seems incredulous when the angel tells her that she will be with child. "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" If she were getting married soon and intending to have children by her husband, she very likely would be familiar with the ordinary means of conceiving a child, and thus would not have asked such a question. One's response in that case would be "Yes, I will conceive and bear a son, what of it?" Rather, it is reasonable to conclude that she had been vowed to virginity since her youngest years, and thus was incredulous as to how she could conceive if she intended to maintain that vow, even entering into marriage. The angel explains, of course, how she will conceive, and she responds with faith. "Be it done unto me according to thy word."

-ACEGC


#8

My thoughts on it,

I believe she was virgin, and if I was a virgin and got a visit from an angle telling me I was to bear a child and became pg, I don't think I'd want to lay with a man after that. I also believe that Joseph was older and had children with his first wife who died, and he was picked to be Mary's husband to take care of her. I believe the one story says he was in his 90's when they got married. also Joseph got a visit too, so he knew how special Mary was and who Jesus was.


#9

[quote="Angela77, post:1, topic:265849"]
Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn't a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.

[/quote]

Please STOP going to those other sites! They preach division, which is not of the Holy Spirit. What they are doing is twisting scripture and filling in the blanks to support their anti-Catholic beliefs. They have uninformed opinion, and the "expert" opinions of others who have no authority to interpret scripture.

All of this is an attack on Mary, which is an unwitting attack on Jesus. Mary was chosen by Jesus to be His own mother. Think about that. She was with Him from birth to death. She vowed to be the "bond slave" of the Lord (Luke 1:38). What does a slave do? Serves the Master, and no one else, including herself.


#10

[quote="Rascalking, post:5, topic:265849"]
I disagree in part. If the site is asking honest questions, what's the problem? If it's just a Catholic bashing one, then ignore it.

OP-Honest answer is we don't know. It's a leap of faith. I believe Mary was a virgin before she concieved the Christ. Can I prove it? Of course not, it's just a leap of faith.

[/quote]

please don't tell a protestant 'its just a leap of faith' 'cos they won't take that as a valid answer. Perpetual viginity was define very early (6th cent.): before conception cf Lk1:26 e.t.c during conception
Is7:14 'cos a VIGIN is with child and shall BEAR A SON. After conception: there is no biblical proof to suggest otherwise, the dogma was implied according to the church fathers by the following jn 19:26 presupposes that mary had no other children, Ezk44:2 here they talk of mary as that 'east gate'. This doctrine is clearly taught by tradition.


#11

I believe that the OP is speaking of the "brothers" and "sisters" and Matthew 1:25 routine. She is addressing the perpetual virginity issue.

The really odd thing is that "bible Christians" impliedly believe the Catholic Church when it declared, "This is the bible", but they think it is making things up when it declares anything else.

Pray for them. They have been lead astray by the spirit of division.


#12

All I want to know is if somebody is saying that Mary was some kind of bad girl who was running around fornicating with random men, what are you planning on saying to The King of Kings when you meet him and he wants to know why you were talking badly about his MOTHER?!?! :eek:

Pax :signofcross:


#13

2 Peter 3:15-16

"And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

Prophetic words for our age.


#14

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Isaiah 7:14 Douay-Rheims Bible

"And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." *Luke 1:26-28 *Douay-Rheims Bible

"And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man ? Luke 1:34 Douay-Rheims Bible

Furthermore..........

"When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own." *John 19:26-27 *Douay-Rheims Bible This is proof that Jesus is Mary's ONLY child. When Jesus was on the cross, He gave care of His mother to John, His faithful disciple. She clearly had no other children other than Jesus. If She did then the other children would have been mentioned, and they would care for Mary, instead of the disciple John. There was no one else to look after Mary.

Not only does scripture prove that Mary was a virgin before Jesus was born, but also it proves that she remained a virgin all Her life.


#15

[quote="Ubenedictus, post:10, topic:265849"]
please don't tell a protestant 'its just a leap of faith' 'cos they won't take that as a valid answer. Perpetual viginity was define very early (6th cent.): before conception cf Lk1:26 e.t.c during conception
Is7:14 'cos a VIGIN is with child and shall BEAR A SON. After conception: there is no biblical proof to suggest otherwise, the dogma was implied according to the church fathers by the following jn 19:26 presupposes that mary had no other children, Ezk44:2 here they talk of mary as that 'east gate'. This doctrine is clearly taught by tradition.

[/quote]

UBenedictus, I also remember discovering the passage from Ezekiel 44:2 "this gate will be kept shut. No one may open it or go through it, since Yahweh, God of Israel, has been through it. And so it must be kept shut, The Prince however, may sit there to take his meal in the presence of Yahweh." and going YES this is it. This is the "type" for Mary's ongoing perpetual virginity.


#16

Basic 101 RCIA may be helpful for you.


#17

[quote="A_G, post:14, topic:265849"]
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Isaiah 7:14 Douay-Rheims Bible

"And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." *Luke 1:26-28 *Douay-Rheims Bible

"And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man ? Luke 1:34 Douay-Rheims Bible

Furthermore..........

"When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own." *John 19:26-27 *Douay-Rheims Bible This is proof that Jesus is Mary's ONLY child. When Jesus was on the cross, He gave care of His mother to John, His faithful disciple. She clearly had no other children other than Jesus. If She did then the other children would have been mentioned, and they would care for Mary, instead of the disciple John. There was no one else to look after Mary.

Not only does scripture prove that Mary was a virgin before Jesus was born, but also it proves that she remained a virgin all Her life.

[/quote]

I have seen and read many scholars discuss that the word for "virgin" in the original manuscripts can also be translated to mean "young woman"...that it was a common understanding that the same word had several definitions...

And also, several books that show where scribes changed the text in the gospel called Matthew from "Jacob was the father of Joseph husband of Mary, out of whom Jesus—the one who is called the Messiah—was born”....in earlier versions of the book, to...." Jacob was father of Joseph, to whom was betrothed the virgin Mary from who Jesus—etc,"....where the word "virgin" was added in by copyists in later texts.

So I assume these might be bits from the discussions you saw on the other sites discussing the bible?

Of course, unless we have Mary's doctor show us x-rays, we can't prove it.
If you believe it, you must believe how the story was passed along verbally, written down later, then translated/interpreted....and you have to believe what the church tells you.


#18

[quote="Nelka, post:4, topic:265849"]
You should stay away form these other sites.

[/quote]

Yeah, I totally agree.


#19

So, I understand that Mary was a virgin before and after having Jesus. But here's what confuses me: how do we know that Jesus wasn't conceived traditionally between Mary and Joseph and that that was Mary's only intercourse ever? I understand that God can certainly just put Jesus into Mary's womb if He wants to; anything's possible for Him. Was the angel Gabriel telling Mary that Jesus was already in her, or was he saying that she should find a man with whom to make him?


#20

I don’t think it’s any debate Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Between the prophecies and the Gospels referring to her as a virgin, that about wraps that issue up. The question lies in did she remain a virgin forever. Catholics are suppose to believe that as part of Mary’s story. Do we know FOR SURE, no, cause there is no direct historical reference that says yes. Just Church tradition.


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