HOW do you believe?


What about other miracles?
Like the miracles of Lourdes?
These have been investigated by doctors of many different faiths, not just catholic.

Or how about the fact that you exist?


Good questions but they don’t mean that there is a God. either people behave ethically in a world where there is a God or they behave ethically in a world where there is not.

To turn the tables a bit, if there is a God, why would anybody act immorally. Why would people cheat on their spous, why do many people not have any self control? Why do some people hurt others? Why do some not have guilt for their actions?


I have to ask: “Am I the center of the Universe?”

“Can I accept that things occurred before I was born?”

“Can I accept that people who are or who were might be smarter or wiser than me?”

“Can I study what those wiser people wrote and can I come away from those studies with some additional wisdom for myself?”


Good questions…
Here are some more:

  1. If there is a God, how do you think you would know ?
  2. If you knew God existed, would that mean you could explain Him and account for why He does what He does?
  3. Would knowing that there IS a God be the same as knowing Him? (how or how not?)



“If there is a God, then how could I possibly know Him, for He is Infinitely Complex and I am very microscopicly small and very impossibly limited.”

“If I KNEW God existed, then how could I possibly explain Him, for He is INFINITELY COMPLEX?”

“Perhaps, if I relied on the wisdom of the people who went before me, I might have some inkling or some faint idea about knowing Him.”


1. By God’s giving the knowledge, both that He is, & that He is known :slight_smile:

  1. No, to both parts of the question
  2. No - is knowing that a football exists the same thing as friendship with that football ?


Thanks…just one comment…

God is infinitely complex Actually, no, God is infinite simplicity.

Possibly an even more difficult connundrum for us, no?:wink:

We are the ones who are complex…not infinitely of course (tho I sometimes wonder…:slight_smile: ) We are, by our fallen nature, incapable of true simplicity or of understanding (through our own powers) what infinite simplicity is even like.

This is why I agree with the Church and those here who have said that God is known - AS He is - only through His revelation. He reveals Himself, who He is and what He is; if He does not reveal it, we have no clue.



AGREE !! :thumbsup:

p.s. I’m a ‘genetic’ GB Packer fan, so can say it IS possible to have a friendship with a football field - if it’s Lambeau Field!! :cool: :thumbsup:


It’s a gift from God, to have faith revealed to you. I can tell you the shivers that run down my spine when I meditate on Psalms that say things like, “You have counted and named all the stars in the sky. You know every hair on my head.” and Jesus preaching, “Consider the ravens. They do not sow or reap, and yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable are you than birds! Do not worry…life is more than food and the body more than clothes. Which of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?” and Isiash prophesying, “I will never forget you. Your name is marked on the palms of my hands.” and Jesus, promising the thief who was crucified next to him who confessed his guilt and begged Jesus to remember him when he got to his kingdom, “Truly, you will be with me in Paradise.”

I can tell you about the first time I went to Adoration with a devout friend, when I felt the presence of Jesus and I prayed, “I missed you!” and then I saw a bright light and felt very hot, and I heard the words, “I missed you, too!” and I burst out crying. That was my real conversion experience that lead me to the Catholic church.

These are precious gifts that I pray every day and thank God for and I pray that my relationship with God can keep growing and I can keep feeling that connection with Him and find ways to show His love to the world, like Jesus did.

Many people are not given what I have been given and I pray for them. You have to be open to that love. That’s all I can tell you. I closed myself to it for many years, but it was always there. I pray that you will someday discover it if you decide to open yourself up to it.

God will never force Himself on anyone. But He misses you every moment, whether you are aware of it or not.


Infinitely simple? Or, Infinitely complex?

There are six billion people on the planet right this moment (give or take).

God knows everything about every one of those people … as well as everything about every bird in the sky, every blade of grass, every termite, every speck of dust ( earth dust as well as cosmic dust).

Complex or simple???


Is the writer of crossword puzzles simple or complex???

How about the Writer of an Infinite Crossword Puzzle???


God is infinitely simple… To us He seems complex because we are finite and in ‘time’ and therefore cannot perceive or understand an eternal ‘present’; nor can we understand ‘eternal’ (having no beginning and no end). All the ‘things’ we know about God are just that to us - “all those things” - and we, by our nature, have to think of them as separate things all belonging to one being (here starts the illusion of complexity).

But God is not a being to which a lot of things belong. We can only think of things like His mercy, love, goodness, power, graciousness, etc. as being ‘attributes’. In reality, they are not…He IS all those things. He IS existence itself; He does not ‘have’ existence. “I AM WHO AM”

I’m not very good at explaining it but I do know that God is ultimate, infinite simplicity. We can’t understand that. Wel live in a linear existence of time, which will always stop us from understanding the reality of God (until the day…)



Good point, just look at moral western philosophy. That’s enough to make a person shrug, open a bottle of beer, sit back and just say wow …

The answer to your second question, of course boils down to free will. You can go back to Genesis Chapter 3, once Eve ate the fruit, she probably squinted her eyes tightly, expecting to drop dead. When she realized she in fact wouldn’t drop dead instantly, she kept on eating. The she does what we all do, we try to rationalize our decisions. Good or bad. Win, lose or draw. Then of course we become de-sensitized to whatever the vice (or sin) is.

The best part is God is only a prayer away!





re: “For me to believe in God, I have a fair chance of eternal life in heaven. And to not believe in God, I lose that chance and spend eternity in hell.”

This is a sort of paraphrasing of Pascal’s Wager. Unfortunately the Wager is invalid right from the start since it is based on the notion that a person can consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone does or doesn’t exist and of course that is impossible.


Is it impossible?

This is a serious question, and goes to the root of our faith or our disbelief, no?



re: “Is it impossible?”

Well, because I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have, and because I have never seen anyone else demonstrate their ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I have to say yes, it is impossible.

re: “This is a serious question, and goes to the root of our faith or our disbelief, no?”

Not quite sure about the specifics of that comment. I wonder if you might elaborate a bit.


I very much would like to know what it is capital-B Believers feel – not that I wish to experience it, but I would like to know how they feel and perceive the world, that I might understand more of the human condition. And ‘universal lovingkindness’ is not what I am curious about, since I feel that constantly, and am often verbally abused for it (yes, even on these fora); that is not exclusive to theists.

Sometimes I wonder if there really is a difference in the structures of not only the minds, but the brains of Believers and nontheists – but I would hope that does not make us necessarily inimical, only different in our perceptions and our needs.


I looked very carefully at evidence of miracles…not just the kind of miracles that affect the physical realm, but the miracles that have happened in my own life. I had a deep, deep spiritual awakening … it is almost impossible to describe. I just suddenly “knew” that all I had been taught all my life was Truth and not just some invention to keep the masses in line.


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