I don’t think that should be your point. Even still, many are true
i haven’t read all 395 replies but i imagine a percentage to some degree is making excuses for the Church and saying oh well that is humanity for you we all sin to some degree an that is just a gross insane way of looking at he problem at hand, and it just doesnt take place in one or two states in America alone, this problem is epidemic across the globe. An to just say well it is a few men, in the clergy, and not the churches problem is just a gross a statement as well. plenty of investigations have now turned up the truth which is that the church had a playbook to sweep things under the rug and to just move predators to other dioceses an let it be someone elses problem and then more excuses come up well most are dead, well that happened so long ago, well that is just the main stream media trying to destroy the church, well it is just this or that. excuse after excuse after excuse an no one wants to admit that the problems start from the top down and the problem is being in a monarchy, the monarchy does not have to answer to the people; and by the way this isn’t inciting any thing against anyone this is merely the facts and truths to a problem that is only being answered with cowardice and being left to respective countries authoraties to handle things on a legal matter, and if the Catholic Church is not more proactive and transparent at some point what will happen is the matter will be taken up with the international court of justice, and why is that Because even though the Roman Catholic Church is a religious institution it is techincally headquartered over saught and run by Rome at the Vatican which is considered a legal country / state. The archaicness and stiffness neckedness of the way things are being handled is equivalent as the way Islamic Terrorists destroyed the Muslim faith, with this mind set of things are done this way because it has been written and translated in such a manner and anyone who says other wise is a blasphemer People want to say well look at America as a government it isn’t innocent, an true enough, but our government is held accountable by the people and the people are protected by a great constitution and bill of rights somthing that the Catholic Church will never grasp or consider There is no voice for the people of the Catholic Church we are left with forcing our respective governments and legal system to protect us from criminals with in the Catholic Church and from the cowards who protect them and are too cowardly to do what is right and just when crimes are committed Again if the Roman Catholic Church continues down the path it has been on and merely keeps up a public relations campaign of apologizing and saying we will fix this Things will continue to get worse and at some point, a group of people will take the matter to the ICOJ An the penalities will not be pretty and when it reaches that point it will be too late to keep apologizing We are past needing apologizies we need transparency we need accountability and we need immediate change. enough excuses enough of being glossy eyed crazy of how blessed we are to have the church and living in denial enough trying to protect ones prestige and power
How has the Pennsylvania scandal affected you personally?
It’s forced me to remember that the Church began with the crucified Christ hung between two thieves. Abandoned by almost all his friends, with his mother there to watch him die.
This is the Church. One foot in eternity and the other firmly entrenched in human mire.
These scandals are difficult to stomach, but if I lose my faith over them, I was probably not really a Christian to begin with. We can’t fall in love with the rosy glow, we fall in love with the whole of it down to the dregs. Like Christ did and continues to do.
The Church triumphant is not a Church of mansions and privilege and power. It is a Church of radical sacrifice.
I fear for the souls of those abused, but I fear even more for the souls of the complacent and abusively self-indulgent, who are not conformed to Christ. (maybe that’s all of us to some degree…)
Yes, hopefully we have. But recent scandals have shown us that it is still a problem. What’s been going on in Chili is a good example. And I may be wrong, but wasn’t one of the clergy currently accused defrocked by Pope Benedict and then reinstated by Pope Francis? Didn’t Pope Francis need to apologize to the victim for his initial “dismissive” response to his complaint just a few moths ago?
What is the consequence right now for Priests who murder the souls of children and their enablers? Is it still early retirement with a pension and medical/car insurance paid for by us? I ask these questions not to be snarky. I am just wondering/thinking out loud.
I really love this post! Word for word I could have wrote it myself except you expressed it much better than I could.
I just had an interesting and unexpected conversation. I am RCIA director in our parish. I have a friend, a strong believer, but not Catholic. He just called me and told me he wanted to enroll in RCIA because of the Pennsylvania scandal. Of course I welcomed him, but I said “Why?”
His reply was “If the devil is taking this big of a swing at you, you must be doing something right. I want to know more.”
God’s got this, he really does.
A bit of background for context:
I’m a non-Catholic (non-believer if I am to be brutally honest) who grew up attending a mainline protestant church. As a young adult I practiced no religion. As fate would have it, I ended up marrying a Catholic. Since getting married (about 15 years ago) I have attended Sunday Mass with my wife. During that time the number of Sundays I’ve missed could be counted on the fingers of one hand. I don’t do this because I believe in what is taking place at the altar, but rather to be a supportive husband.
About a year ago we showed up for Mass to discover that the pastor was not there…nor would he be returning - ever. It seems that, earlier that week, someone made an accusation against him for inappropriate sexual behavior. The bishop determined that the accusation was credible and told him to vacate the rectory by the end of business that day. As a non-Catholic I don’t think there is anything “special” about priests, but I do very much appreciate someone who leads a life of service to others, and this priest certainly did that. Plus, he was a nice guy and I genuinely liked him. It shook me to my core to learn of these accusations. Of course, I have read of countless other similar accusations against countless other priests, but this one hit close to home and left a really bad taste in my mouth. I found myself questioning whether or not I really wanted to be sitting in a Catholic church every Sunday morning.
Now, with the news coming out of Pennsylvania this week, I feel as if the proverbial “straw that broke the camel’s back” has finally landed. As I see it, the Church has finally been exposed as being rotten to the core. This is more than just a few (or a lot) of individual priests acting in an immoral manner. It’s a systemic problem that has existed for years and the church leadership is either clueless about what to do or just doesn’t care enough to do anything. It seems as if they have been in CYA mode for years.
To get back to the OP’s question, how does this affect me personally? Well, I’ve got to find a way to tell my wife that I will not be attending Mass with her anymore. While I’m sure she’ll understand, I’m also sure that she’ll be hurt. And I have to admit, I’ll miss going too. The parish is a community of really nice people, and going to Mass was a big part of our Sunday routine. But I just can’t do it anymore.
It’s possible to realize certain Church leaders failed while also realizing this kind of sickness happens in all kinds of institutions and the Church still teaches truth. If that is how WE deal with the situation then why are we not allowed to deal with it that way?
I say this as someone who has experienced abuse (in my family) in schools, in family, with babysitters and yes, even in a dentist chair. Maybe my view of this all is distorted because I’m a bit number to abuse than some. I don’t know. All I know is when people call the whole Church evil my back gets up and I feel the desire to defend it.
This makes me so sad. Please stay and use your righteous anger to prayerfully and actively help to make change. It is not for the priests we stay, but for God who has promised to be faithful to His Church no matter what and that He will be with us until the end of time. Please reconsider under prayer.
Yes, the scandal has come to the forefront in Chile lately. Pope Francis did not reinstate the defrocked priest, he simply didn’t believe (at first) the accusations that a bishop had covered up the abuse. I believe Francis has experienced an enormous opening of the eyes with regards to the whole thing (which is why every single bishop in Chile offered to resign—that type of coordinated act doesn’t happen without papal prodding).
Not anymore. Most bishops I have seen move to have such priests laicized. Per canon law, that is what needs to happen for a bishop to be able to disavow providing for a priest. But that might vary based on the circumstances. If the priest is old and the accusations seem credible, but cannot be proven, laicization may seem unnecessary all things considered.
Read his post carefully: He’s an atheist who’s just been attending Mass to support his Catholic wife.
Someone pointed out in another thread on this topic that this whole Pennsylvania thing is a new report, but it is not really a new story. That strikes me as true.
Again, not to discount these terrible things. But why are we re-scandalized by this? We already knew that priests were guilty of these things going back decades. And we knew that many bishops—often following the advice of the psychological experts at the time—had priests sent away to be “cured” with therapy only to come back and abuse again.
Since 2002, most bishops know better. Reports are dealt with openly, and those who are accused credibly are removed from ministry. Even this very report acknowledges that only two of the 300 accused are from incidents in the past 10 years. And both of those were dealt with properly.
I really hope I do not sound callous towards those who have been abused. This is not my intent at all. But I’m struggling to figure out why this report has shaken so many people when it hasn’t really told us anything we didn’t already learn back in 2002. It’s not new information. What am I missing? I’m honestly asking.
I put myself firmly among those who have no intention of abandoning the Church and the Sacraments.
That said, if anyone wants to start a #CleansetheTemple club, I’ll sign up as soon as I hear about it. I will also buy the bumper stickers and the t-shirts. I have no confidence that reform will come from the top down, and if so, then it must come from the bottom up.
There is much to be said for brevity.
The fact that even one person knew and did nothing is bad enough.
There is no getting around that. Abuse of power is a very dangerous thing, and if you cannot see that it is pervasive in the Church it is because you don’t want to, which is why the problem will continue to fester.
I do not know everywhere else, but here,the ones that were accused have gone toJustice and when proved guilty, they are in prison.
Right. Because I’m the problem. Me who has absolutely no power. Who else is to blame?
I don’t think it is pervasive in the Church. Sorry but the stats say differently. Your perception is your own. Don’t go around attacking others for not seeing as you see.
Deciding to care does not depend on emotions. It depends on seeing the gravity of the problem and recognizing that there is a duty to protect the innocent that has been grievously offended against in a way that cannot be ignored.
You in the general sense, not you personally.
As in all the people, clergy and lay, who don’t want to admit this is a systemic problem and that we all must be diligent in rooting out this evil that has taken hold in our Church
I noticed that after, but decided to let it be. What better place to be in a position to receive God’s grace than by attending Church? Lol