"How He Loves" (John McMillan) Appropriate for Mass?


#1

Here is the song in question.

It was played at my parish as the communion hymn.

Verse 1:
He is jealous for me,
Loves like a hurricane, I am a tree,
Bending beneath the weight of his wind and mercy.
When all of a sudden,
I am unaware of these afflictions eclipsed by glory,
And I realize just how beautiful You are,
And how great Your affections are for me.

Pre-Chorus:
And oh, how He loves us so,
Oh how He loves us,
How He loves us so

Chorus 1:
Yeah, He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves.
Yeah, He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves.

Verse 2:
We are His portion and He is our prize,
Drawn to redemption by the grace in His eyes,
If grace is an ocean, we’re all sinking.
So Heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss,
And the heart turns violently inside of my chest,
I don’t have time to maintain these regrets,
When I think about, the ways

Chorus 2:
He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves.
Yeah, He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves us,
Oh how He loves.

I bolded the part in red that bothers me. Bottom line, is this appropriate or should I take time and ask my parish priest to look at the lyrics?


#2

I think you ought to think about it a little and when you get chance then ask your priest why this hymn was chosen and explain why you dislike that line to him if it really is bothering you that much. Yeh it a bit cheesy but nothing wrong as such but there again am anglican so have different views there. If I noticed the words I just would think, not my kind of hymn but just leave it at that and may be at a choir practice in the future either ask about it or hope someone else has done is what I would do since I am in the choir. But on the whole words are just words as such to me and just because I don't like them, other people may do.

also
It could have been chosen to see well hear if any of the congregation do take note of any of the words and kind of begging someone to in a friendly way to ask a question about them. We take things very much for granted and complain when not happy but sit in our own sleepy worlds about such things so when something is thrown at us that wakes us up then that may be a deliberate intention, to wake us up from our sleepy norm of the service so it may be good if you could in a friendly way, approach the priest and ask him about it :thumbsup:


#3

First of all, it's not a hymn to begin with. It's a pop song. By a religious "singer-songwriter". :rolleyes:

I found a recording.youtube.com/watch?v=TWgeUrD4MHI

It's secular religious pop music. There is nothing sacred (set apart for the sacred liturgy) about it.

Major yuk.

Maybe something to listen to in the car, if that's the kind of thing that floats your boat. Don't forget the tissues.
It probably would also fit in well at the local mega-Church praise and 'worship' session.


#4

It's probably not even Catholic. The Dave Crowder Band, the group that sings it, is Baptist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crowder_Band

Question: How was this tune "rendered" in the Mass you attended? What instruments were used? (Electric guitars? Drum set? Amplifiers? A singing Teen Idol?)

In answer to your first question, no, this music is not appropriate for Mass, but it is probably "allowable", since this area is not a priority with most Bishops. (Unfortunately).

Your second question was about lyrics. It's not just lyrics that make a piece of music unsuitable for the Mass. It's also the musical style itself. In this case, it's not recognizable as a form of sacred music, but is instantly recognizable as pop music in a song form.. Take away the lyrics, and you get something totally secular in a pop style.

Also, the instrumentation is used in a pop style (if this is the way that it was done at your parish).

Aaargh!!!


#5

I'm used to that being played at non-Catholic protestant services that I have gone to but would not expect that at mass. I personally dont think its appropriate.


#6

[quote="opus101, post:4, topic:325491"]
It's probably not even Catholic. The Dave Crowder Band, the group that sings it, is Baptist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crowder_Band

Yet another reason (not a big reason, but still..) I'm leaving the Baptist church and becoming Catholic - the insistence on this kind of music during Sunday morning worship.

[/quote]


#7

speak to the music director first with your concerns before going to the priest. Politely point out what you find concerning about the song. If you don’t have any satisfaction with the church musician then you have more leverage when approaching the priest.


#8

Yeppers, I don’t know why superkid BAD CATHOLIC blogger Marc Barnes thinks so much of David Crowder. If one thinks this song is inappropriate, you ought to check out Crowder’s so-called REQUIEM MASS! Blogger Barnes seemed to think Crowder was in the process of conversion, c’est la vie.
What you were subjected to was an imposition of “taste” by your music ministry leader/shot caller who doubtless thinks that the earnest “emo” sensitivity of such “songs” actually catches the searchers’ hearts and therefore transforms and enhances the liturgical moment.
At Communion…
Really?
It’s just a redo of AWESOME GOD again for the umpteenth time, and theologically not as honest as children singing "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so."
Music guy/gal needs a little authoritative catechesis from pastor.


#9

I personally love this song, but it it certainly not appropriate for Mass. At a praise and worship gathering this would be a great song, but at Mass this is (at least to me) irreverent. We go to Mass for the Eucharist and for Jesus, not to have a dance party. As I said, I love this song, but it is simply way too distracting at a time when people need to be praying and focusing on Christ.

As to the line you've bolded, I first heard it rendered "passionate kiss" instead of "sloppy, wet kiss," and I certainly like the "passionate" version better. I suppose it has to do with the group performing the song, as many bands have covered this. The first time I heard "sloppy, wet kiss," I cringed just a bit.


#10

[quote="Fahey0115, post:6, topic:325491"]

Yet another reason (not a big reason, but still..) I'm leaving the Baptist church and becoming Catholic - the insistence on this kind of music during Sunday morning worship.

Welcome, Fahey!!!
[/quote]


#11

[quote="classica87, post:9, topic:325491"]
I personally love this song, but it it certainly not appropriate for Mass. At a praise and worship gathering this would be a great song, but at Mass this is (at least to me) irreverent. We go to Mass for the Eucharist and for Jesus, not to have a dance party. As I said, I love this song, but it is simply way too distracting at a time when people need to be praying and focusing on Christ.

As to the line you've bolded, I first heard it rendered "passionate kiss" instead of "sloppy, wet kiss," and I certainly like the "passionate" version better. I suppose it has to do with the group performing the song, as many bands have covered this. The first time I heard "sloppy, wet kiss," I cringed just a bit.

[/quote]

I use "unforeseen kiss"-- like Crowder uses.


#12

Every time I hear, "sloppy wet kiss" in that song I wince and resist the temptation to claw at my ears... :eek: :crying: :banghead: and then give the place some of this :highprayer:

more commonly, I have heard it rendered "unforeseen kiss." which I prefer; it seems more mystical and less...sensual, I suppose

And IMO (and according to the teaching of the 2nd Vatican Council, FWIW) that song is NOT appropriate for the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It ought to be saved for extra-liturgical gatherings such as "Lifeteen" meetings, teen retreats, etc.

I say this as a high schooler. Albeit a traditional Roman Catholic high schooler ;) :thumbsup:


#13

[quote="opus101, post:4, topic:325491"]
It's probably not even Catholic. The Dave Crowder Band, the group that sings it, is Baptist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crowder_Band

Question: How was this tune "rendered" in the Mass you attended? What instruments were used? (Electric guitars? Drum set? Amplifiers? A singing Teen Idol?)

In answer to your first question, no, this music is not appropriate for Mass, but it is probably "allowable", since this area is not a priority with most Bishops. (Unfortunately).

Your second question was about lyrics. It's not just lyrics that make a piece of music unsuitable for the Mass. It's also the musical style itself. In this case, it's not recognizable as a form of sacred music, but is instantly recognizable as pop music in a song form.. Take away the lyrics, and you get something totally secular in a pop style.

Also, the instrumentation is used in a pop style (if this is the way that it was done at your parish).

Aaargh!!!

[/quote]

I would love to see a specific list of hymns considered Catholic :juggle:


#14

[quote="englishredrose, post:13, topic:325491"]

I would love to see a specific list of hymns considered Catholic :juggle:

[/quote]

"Catholic" is only part of the issue. What I was speaking to was whether or not it was suitable for the Mass, in other words, whether or not it was sacred music, as opposed to religious pop music. Something can be "Catholic", doctrinely speaking, but still be unsuitable for Mass due to its compositional style and instrumentation.

I'm sure some will find exceptions to the rule, but sacred music is generally written in a style that is set aside, for the most part, for the sacred liturgy itself. For instance, the various forms of chant, "regular" hymns (eg Holy, Holy,Holy), and sacred polyphony (which developed from chant). The text is closely tied to the liturgy, and is not a sort of "private devotional" fare, such as Praise and Worship music found so often in non-Catholic mega-church 'worship'.

Both Bishop Sample and Bishop Olmsted have written clearly about the issue, and you could google their articles and letters to find out more.


#15

[quote="opus101, post:14, topic:325491"]
The text is closely tied to the liturgy, and is not a sort of "private devotional" fare, such as Praise and Worship music found so often in non-Catholic mega-church 'worship'.

.

[/quote]

Then one can't use the psalms and antiphons for the mass then, because many of them are also "private devotion".


#16

[quote="agapewolf, post:15, topic:325491"]
Then one can't use the psalms and antiphons for the mass then, because many of them are also "private devotion".

[/quote]

Like I said, "I'm sure some will find exceptions to the rule".

I'm also sure you know exactly what I meant, and if you don't, hopefully others will.

The psalms and antiphons are part of the Mass, hence, when they are wed to sacred music styles and used in the Mass, they constitute sacred music.

"How He Loves Me" is not part of the Mass, and even if the text were acceptable, the musical setting is one of pop music.


#17

I so agree with Opus and Charles. It's not just the words but is the music and instrumentation. We need to take out the pop music, the broadway show tunes out of the Mass and those songs should be sung at other times. Hopefully this will be turning around in the future, and hopefully in my lifetime. :rolleyes:


#18

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