How is Bayonetta Satanic?

Seriously How is Bayonetta Satanic ? it's not even angels that you kill it's like Greek mythology not even related to christianity Do you think it's Satanic
? i don't

Some Site even say’s dante’s inferno is Satanic… how is dante’s inferno Satanic? it’s about hell basically i don’t have dante’s inferno but i hear it’s a great game Same with Shin Megami Tensei :slight_smile:

[quote="i_need_helpp, post:1, topic:196499"]
Seriously How is Bayonetta Satanic ? it's not even angels that you kill it's like Greek mythology not even related to christianity Do you think it's Satanic
? i don't

[/quote]

I'm not sure what you are talking about but I assume it is some sort of video game or something. :shrug:

Anyway - as a general rule whether something is good or bad debends on whether it draws you closer to God or not.

Does a game based on mythology and killing engender Christian values of Love?
Does participating in 'virtually killing" engender Love?

If this game does not Glorify God, does not help you to imporve your spiritual life, then I would not play it.

Peace
James

[quote="JRKH, post:3, topic:196499"]
I'm not sure what you are talking about but I assume it is some sort of video game or something. :shrug:

Anyway - as a general rule whether something is good or bad debends on whether it draws you closer to God or not.

Does a game based on mythology and killing engender Christian values of Love?
Does participating in 'virtually killing" engender Love?

If this game does not Glorify God, does not help you to imporve your spiritual life, then I would not play it.

Peace
James

[/quote]

Yes. Great answer. Dante's inferno is about a member knights templar going through the levels of hell described in the publication of the same name. He kills demons with weapons (one of which is a cross) before ultimately squaring off against the devil. There is a cartoon adaptation of the video game which tells the same story. The reason that this game (and others like it) are not good for us believers to play is that the games' glorification of violence is masked by it's seemingly good characteristics (slaying demons and the use of christian symbols and prayers even). Also important is the desensitizing of the player to the occult imagery and rituals present in these games.

My advice is to play something else like other adventure games that are not as violent or even some puzzle/strategy games which do not have an M or A rating.

[quote="kinja, post:4, topic:196499"]
Yes. Great answer. Dante's inferno is about a member knights templar going through the levels of hell described in the publication of the same name. He kills demons with weapons (one of which is a cross) before ultimately squaring off against the devil. There is a cartoon adaptation of the video game which tells the same story. The reason that this game (and others like it) are not good for us believers to play is that the games' glorification of violence is masked by it's seemingly good characteristics (slaying demons and the use of christian symbols and prayers even). Also important is the desensitizing of the player to the occult imagery and rituals present in these games.

[/quote]

Have you actually played the game? The character was not a member of the Knights Templar. He was a crusader.

Besides, violence is only bad when it's done unto the innocent. You're actually quite blasphemous to condemn people for doing violence against demons like I've seen in the game. What are we supposed to do instead? Invite them to tea? If I saw one of those malicious archfiends wreaking havoc in my town and God gave me a weapon to kill it, you can bet I'd kill it in the most brutal manner possible.

And if you take out the violence, know that the story is about a man realizing just how heavy his sins are. It's a story about redemption and accounting for your misdeeds.

If anything, it can even be a good way to show people the horrors of hell. I for one would rather play it than read another Chick tract.

[quote="Lost_Wanderer, post:5, topic:196499"]
Have you actually played the game? The character was not a member of the Knights Templar. He was a crusader.

Besides, violence is only bad when it's done unto the innocent. You're actually quite blasphemous to condemn people for doing violence against demons like I've seen in the game. What are we supposed to do instead? Invite them to tea? If I saw one of those malicious archfiends wreaking havoc in my town and God gave me a weapon to kill it, you can bet I'd kill it in the most brutal manner possible.

And if you take out the violence, know that the story is about a man realizing just how heavy his sins are. It's a story about redemption and accounting for your misdeeds.

If anything, it can even be a good way to show people the horrors of hell. I for one would rather play it than read another Chick tract.

[/quote]

I agree with Lost Wanderer completely. Dante's Inferno (the game) is definitely centered around the idea of redemption and penance. If anything, it showed the horrors of sin. The level of Lust had a lot of nudity and sexual imagery, yes, but it was not at all tempting. It was grotesque. It filled me with disgust.

And that's how we should view sin: With disgust. Just like the poem, the game showed how sins aren't really "pleasurable joys" but distortions of good. They take morality and twist it into immorality.

Indeed, I wouldn't let kids or younger teens play this game, it's quite brutal and quite intense. But just because something contains violence and such in it doesn't make it bad. Have you ever read the Bible? There's plenty of violence in it, but no Christian would ever say the Bible is offensive.

[quote="Lost_Wanderer, post:5, topic:196499"]
Have you actually played the game? The character was not a member of the Knights Templar. He was a crusader.

Besides, violence is only bad when it's done unto the innocent. You're actually quite blasphemous to condemn people for doing violence against demons like I've seen in the game. What are we supposed to do instead? Invite them to tea? If I saw one of those malicious archfiends wreaking havoc in my town and God gave me a weapon to kill it, you can bet I'd kill it in the most brutal manner possible.

And if you take out the violence, know that the story is about a man realizing just how heavy his sins are. It's a story about redemption and accounting for your misdeeds.

If anything, it can even be a good way to show people the horrors of hell. I for one would rather play it than read another Chick tract.

[/quote]

No I have not played the game. So he was a crusader: my mistake. - forgot that. I saw the cartoon and watched a friend play the game. You did not comment on the occult symbols and demonic elements .
Should we consider this good? We are to fight demons with spiritual armor according to christian belief. Christ said violence begets violence.

[quote="kinja, post:7, topic:196499"]
No I have not played the game. So he was a crusader: my mistake. - forgot that. I saw the cartoon and watched a friend play the game. You did not comment on the occult symbols and demonic elements .
Should we consider this good? We are to fight demons with spiritual armor according to christian belief. Christ said violence begets violence.

[/quote]

Yet we have images of St. Michael stepping on a demon and pointing a sword at its head. :rolleyes: I think it's actually you who hasn't noticed anything. This is hell we're talking here. It's supposed to be demonic and be associated with occult symbols. It's the same way heaven is depicted to be full of beautiful angels in white and Christian symbols.

P.S.

I don't know about you but Christ was quite violent when they desecrated the temple. :cool:

[quote="Lost_Wanderer, post:8, topic:196499"]
Yet we have images of St. Michael stepping on a demon and pointing a sword at its head. :rolleyes: I think it's actually you who hasn't noticed anything. This is hell we're talking here. It's supposed to be demonic and be associated with occult symbols. It's the same way heaven is depicted to be full of beautiful angels in white and Christian symbols.

P.S.

I don't know about you but Christ was quite violent when they desecrated the temple. :cool:

[/quote]

St michael stepping on the serpent is symbolism. Christ in all his "anger" never struck anyone. He overturned tables because he was inpired by godly wrath to do so. To call him violent is tantamount to blasphemy. Scripture says a man of violence His soul hates. Be honest is the game fun because it glorifies God or our thirst for vividly enacted violent acts?
Ask anyone who plays the game if it brings them closer to God. I don't think it does. I don't have to see in detail someones idea of what hell looks like to know I don't want to be there or cut heads off of demons either. If you do that is your affair but I think it is just an excuse to justify the enjoyment of a visually stimulating video game.

[quote="kinja, post:9, topic:196499"]
St michael stepping on the serpent is symbolism. Christ in all his "anger" never struck anyone. He overturned tables because he was inpired by godly wrath to do so. To call him violent is tantamount to blasphemy. Scripture says a man of violence His soul hates. Be honest is the game fun because it glorifies God or our thirst for vividly enacted violent acts?
Ask anyone who plays the game if it brings them closer to God. I don't think it does. I don't have to see in detail someones idea of what hell looks like to know I don't want to be there or cut heads off of demons either. If you do that is your affair but I think it is just an excuse to justify the enjoyment of a visually stimulating video game.

[/quote]

So what about when God helped the Israelities escape the Egyptians by drowning Pharoah and his men in the Red Sea?

All of the discussion about the details and levels of the violence, the symbols or other graphics used are all secondary to the real issue which is whether playing such games help one to grow spiritually or not.

Most anything, even very evil things CAN bring us closer to God. On the other hand things “Cloaked” in goodness can lead us away from God.

The question is, in my mind, what is the primary methodology used to “teach” these “moral principles”. It seems that broad and even gratuitous violence is the tool. So are we learning to “Glorify God” through living a Christian Life? Or are we learning to “Kill evil” using the tools of evil (Murder and violence).

If Christ wished us to defeat our enemies by armed conflict, he would have taught this. But this is not what He taught. He taught Peace, Love, Passive resistance which is what He did during His passion.
If you want to learn how to fight evil, learn to suffer. To stand up and Live your Christian Faith in the Great Commandments of Love. Not by engraining “violent response” to the tempations of evil.

Peace
James

wow… didnt want an argument i just wanted to know if you thought bayonetta was satanic

The problem is Christ’s pacifism never covered demons manifesting into physical reality. :stuck_out_tongue:
Like I said, if demons started rising from hell and invading our world, you can bet I’d be one of the first to sign up for a slaughter fest against them. Not only am I defending people from the forces of evil, I get to have fun! 8D

You do know the pacifist ideal of non-retaliation is foolish when one side has every intention to pillage, rape, and pulverize all of mankind… right? :ehh:

[quote="kinja, post:9, topic:196499"]
St michael stepping on the serpent is symbolism. Christ in all his "anger" never struck anyone. He overturned tables because he was inpired by godly wrath to do so. To call him violent is tantamount to blasphemy.

[/quote]

Violence is violence be it be done against a chair, a person, animal, etc. So long as you strike something out of intense emotion, that is violence. And no, symbolism doesn't change the fact that Catholics have no problem seeing a devil being pwned by an angel. :P

[quote="kinja, post:9, topic:196499"]
Scripture says a man of violence His soul hates. Be honest is the game fun because it glorifies God or our thirst for vividly enacted violent acts?]Ask anyone who plays the game if it brings them closer to God. I don't think it does. I don't have to see in detail someones idea of what hell looks like to know I don't want to be there or cut heads off of demons either. If you do that is your affair but I think it is just an excuse to justify the enjoyment of a visually stimulating video game.

[/quote]

Why can't it be both? Devils are every good Christians' enemy right? Honestly you Christian pacifists have such sad misconceptions about violence. Violence is only evil when done against the innocent. You certainly don't cry if you chop off a turkey's head right? The way I see it, you decrying the violence being done against the demons in the game sounds dangerously like you're defending them. :rolleyes: Commandments and laws against violence are only there to protect the rights of people, not demons, people.

[quote="i_need_helpp, post:12, topic:196499"]
wow.. didnt want an argument i just wanted to know if you thought bayonetta was satanic

[/quote]

Well you did throw in Dante's Inferno. :shrug:

[quote="Lost_Wanderer, post:13, topic:196499"]
The problem is Christ's pacifism never covered demons manifesting into physical reality. :P
Like I said, if demons started rising from hell and invading our world, you can bet I'd be one of the first to sign up for a slaughter fest against them. Not only am I defending people from the forces of evil, I get to have fun! 8D

[/quote]

You say that not only would you be defending people by a "slaughter fest against" demons but you would "Have fun". I can think of nothing that plays more fully into the hands of the enemy. By embracing as "fun" killing and slaughtering only weakens the Chrisitan Ideal of Love it cannot strengthen it. It is a movement away from God and not toward him

You do know the pacifist ideal of non-retaliation is foolish when one side has every intention to pillage, rape, and pulverize all of mankind... right? :ehh:

I know this. Evil cannot be fully defeated by using the tools of evil. Evil can be beaten back but never destroyed by using the tools of evil. The greatest modern war against evil - Against Nazism - has not dstroyed evil. Evil still exists and is once again flourishing.

Do you by chance recall the old Star trek episode where the "entity" trapped equal forces of kingons and humans against each other and supported their battle so it could feed on negative emotion, on hate? This is what the Evil one does. He feeds on and encourages our negativity because it makes us easier targets.

If Satan were to unleash "Demons" into the world it would be for just such a purpose. To weaken us by building up our negative emotions of hate and revenge.

I know no such thing as to "non-retaliation" being foolish.

Was Christ "Foolish" when He did not retaliate against his Accusers but instead said, "Father forgive them..."
Were the Early Christians "foolish" when they allowed themselves to be tortured and killed in the arenas all the while singing songs of praise and Glory to God?

I think not. Many came to conversion by such "foolishness" as you call it. Many still do come to conversion by the holy example of people like Mother Theresa, and the saint(s) who died in Nazi Concentration camps (I forget the specific names)

You wish to fight and kill in defence of "good" and "innocence". This is fine. This is noble. However, when you pick up a physical weapon, be it gun, knife, or fist, what are definding? You are defending finite physical life. Something that will end regardless of the method.

Eternal life on the other hand is not achieved or defended by physical means. It requires a different skill set, a different arsenal of weapons. Love, understanding, humility, Forebearance, honesty - These are the weapons by which evil can be defeated.

I am reminded as I sit here of one of the last scenes in Star Wars IV(the first one released). Obi-Wan says to Darth, "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
So shall we when we join ourselves, both here on earth and later in theaven, to the Great Heavenly Host who's victory is assured by following the "Prince of Peace"

Peace
James

To the OP.

I know we are not directly answering your question, but like so many things there are different takes, different aspects.
I hope that our discussion here gives you food for thought so tha tyou can make an “informed” determination.

Peace
James

I’m afraid you’re really not getting the point. Look there’s a towering demon charging right at me ready to chop me into bloody chunks of flesh and holding a cleaver that’s the size of my entire body. The point is, it’s either me or it. It just so happens I enjoy the adrenaline rush of cutting something, huge, monstrous, and menacing and bringing it down dead on its knees. It’s kinda like hunting actually. I doubt there’s anything “peaceful” about killing an animal for sport. Is it evil? Hardly and in the case of archfiends, it can actually be quite beneficial. :stuck_out_tongue:

Besides, how can you treat the slaughter of demons as if it was akin to the slaughter of the innocent? You can’t “love” a demon. That’s pretty much blasphemy.

The game lets you kill demons and gives you a variety of awesome ways to do it. I can’t see how St. Michael at least would object to the idea. Wasn’t He the one who personally kicked satan out of heaven?

[quote="Lost_Wanderer, post:18, topic:196499"]
I'm afraid you're really not getting the point. Look there's a towering demon charging right at me ready to chop me into bloody chunks of flesh and holding a cleaver that's the size of my entire body. The point is, it's either me or it. It just so happens I enjoy the adrenaline rush of cutting something, huge, monstrous, and menacing and bringing it down dead on its knees.

[/quote]

I suppose it might depend on how one defines "demons", but by my definition, "demons from Hell" cannot be "killed" in the manner you suggest. All you can do is possibly dismember the "body" that they are currently using. Look a the cure in the Gospel where Jesus expelled the Demons and they entered into swine. He did not do this with violence. he did not "Kill" the demons. Instead they went into swine which then were driven mad drown themsleves. Even at this though the demons were not destroyed but only disembodied.

It's kinda like hunting actually. I doubt there's anything "peaceful" about killing an animal for sport. Is it evil? Hardly and in the case of archfiends, it can actually be quite beneficial. :P

Actually killing for sport IS sinful in my estimation. It is mistreatment of the world God gave us dominion over. Hunting for food - OK. Killing a wolf preying on your lambs - OK. Killing for "sport" nope.

Besides, how can you treat the slaughter of demons as if it was akin to the slaughter of the innocent? You can't "love" a demon. That's pretty much blasphemy.

Now I'm afraid your not getting the point. 1) You cannot kill a demon with a gun sword or atomic weapon. You might dismbody it but not without injury to yourself in loss of Christian Love. 2) You cannot destroy evil by using the tools of evil. The Catachism backs this up by saying we may never use an evil to produce a good.

The game lets you kill demons and gives you a variety of awesome ways to do it. I can't see how St. Michael at least would object to the idea. Wasn't He the one who personally kicked satan out of heaven?

Christ Came and gave us intstruction on how to live and to build up the kingdom of heaven and how to resist demons. None of these things involve the sort of "bloodletting" that is glorified by these types of videogames and movies. Seek God's weapons. Seek Christ's Strategies and victory will be yours.
As to "St Michael" and the heavenly war that sent Satan to Hell, what we have are "images" that reflect the way in which we might understand such a war and such a victory. These images may or amy not reflect the "reality" of something that occurred outside of our limited time/space continuum and limited intelectual capacity.

Peace
James

Ayiyiyi… and here’s the problem when a person applies real-world rules to a fictional realm. For goodness sake man, please look at the situation in context. What you’re doing is like applying the laws of physics to the the Marvel universe. You may think you’re proving something but there really is no point being that we’re not even talking about our world here. We’re talking about a world in the game.

The game lets you kill demons physically, which at the very start breaks already the rules you are incorrectly applying.

My question really is what is so wrong about a game that glorifies violence against demons? They’re demons! They’re supposed to be the ultimate bad guys! You get to kill the ultimate bad guys! What is so wrong with that? :ehh:

How is it a mistreatment? God gave us the Earth and its resources for us to use in whatever manner that benefits us as long as we don’t destroy it. Hunting for sport can be fun as long as people don’t overhunt. It’s the same with sport fishing. Any cause for immorality can be averted with proper moderation.

Then again, that’s not really my point. The thing is violence can be a great source of adrenaline. Look at football, hockey, and boxing. They’re violent sports yet everyone loves them, participants included. It provides a nice outlet for daily frustrations.

What better way to take out your stress than in the unsightly archfiend that could very well symbolize it? :cool:

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