How is homosexuality a choice?


#1

I don't really understand the reasoning behind why it's supposed to be a choice? Who is to say it is not born into someone? I don't mean to insult anyone or anything. I just don't get it. But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell, but this is just one question that I sorta want to know at least a little of the answer to.

Thank you.

And also, I'm a little curious as to what people think about it - will homosexuality ever be accepted by the Church at all?


#2

I don't believe that it is a choice at all. It's a shame that Catholicism doesn't accept it more. It's one of the reasons that I no longer consider myself a Catholic. I'm not gay, but two of my best friends are, and I don't think that some people realize how much the Church's view really hurts them.


#3

[quote="Draggar, post:1, topic:206082"]
I don't really understand the reasoning behind why it's supposed to be a choice? Who is to say it is not born into someone? I don't mean to insult anyone or anything. I just don't get it. But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell, but this is just one question that I sorta want to know at least a little of the answer to.

Thank you.

And also, I'm a little curious as to what people think about it - will homosexuality ever be accepted by the Church at all?

[/quote]

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that being homosexual, meaning that one experiences sexual attraction to others of the same sex, is a choice. One's sexual orientation clearly isn't chosen. Behavior is different...

While it is NOT a sin to have SSA (same-sex attraction), it is a sin, as the Catholic Church teaches, that having sex with others of the same sex is sinful. I am a person who has SSA who agrees with this.

On one is going to hell for experiencing SSA.

FYI, I'm a senior at a Catholic college majoring in theology and mental health. Just thought I'd say that to let you know that I generally know what I'm talking about in this regard.


#4

I think this is a case of a misunderstanding about Catholic teaching. BobObob explained it pretty well. Christ taught us to love on another, no exceptions. I am a musician and I have a number of homosexual friends. I love them as much as I love my heterosexual friends. I can love them and still think their choices are wrong.

This passage is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Quoting paragraphs 2358 and 2359:

*The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.*

I hope this helps you understand that the church does not teach that homosexuals are automatically going to hell and that we are love our homosexual brothers and sisters as much as we love anyone else. Being called to a chaste lifestyle may not be easy, but the rewards will be incredible. I will pray that you are able to find peace.


#5

Attraction is not a choice, but it is your choice to act on the attraction and have sex (except in cases of rape). People are held accountable for their actions. Thoughts/attractions are another matter entirely and can't always be controlled.

A man is not supposed to have sex with anyone except his wife, and a woman is not supposed to have sex with anyone except her husband. Otherwise, they are committing the grave sin of adultery or fornication.

From a biological standpoint, homosexuality is against nature. Men and women were designed to become one flesh to continue the human species. If there are too many gays, the human race will end, especially in areas where people are starting to contracept/abort themselves out of existence (< 2.1 children per woman). Humans are also above animals and have control over their actions, so, unlike animals, you don't have to have sex just because you're attracted to someone.

From a health standpoint, homosexuals are much more likely to have STDs than heterosexuals. For example, a homosexual male is 44 times more likely to have HIV/AIDS than a heterosexual male. The homosexual act is not a healthy lifestyle choice. You don't have to choose to fornicate, you can choose to be celibate.

Christians are called to treat people who experience SSA with compassion and understanding. The people who are militant and perform hate crimes against gays are not following the teachings of Jesus, who calls us to love our neighbor. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

As a Californian, I have several homosexual friends. We get along just fine, even though I don't always agree with their actions.


#6

Put it this way - I'm unmarried and heterosexual. My heterosexuality (feelings of sexual attraction for persons of the opposite gender) is not a problem per se - it is largely out of my control.

If I act it out, however - indulge in inordinate lustful thoughts or sexual activity without benefit of marriage - then my behaviour would indeed be a problem and a sin. Rightly so, because the dwelling on inappropriate thoughts, the inappropriate sexual activity, is indeed a choice.


#7

[quote="Et_Cetera, post:2, topic:206082"]
I don't believe that it is a choice at all. It's a shame that Catholicism doesn't accept it more. It's one of the reasons that I no longer consider myself a Catholic. I'm not gay, but two of my best friends are, and I don't think that some people realize how much the Church's view really hurts them.

[/quote]

I believe it is a choice. Here's why... It's like when a heterosexual man gets married, he still finds other females attractive. God's law says that he may not participate in adultery, so he CHOOSES to deny his human instinct and respect his wife and their marriage. In the case of a homosexual, they too may have an attraction toward a person (of the same sex in this case); BUT if they CHOOSE to place their desire before the will of God, then they are sinning. The Bible is clear on this issue (homosexual behavior = sin) and if ANYONE, homosexual or otherwise, CHOOSES sin over God they're wrong. If your friends have been hurt by the Church's (and God's) stand on this issue, it does not have a bearing on what is right or wrong. Remind them how badly God is hurt by their choice of putting Him second to their sin.


#8

[quote="BobObob, post:3, topic:206082"]

No one is going to hell for experiencing SSA..

[/quote]

just want to help to correct this typo. :P


#9

[quote="Draggar, post:1, topic:206082"]
I don't really understand the reasoning behind why it's supposed to be a choice? Who is to say it is not born into someone? I don't mean to insult anyone or anything. I just don't get it. But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell, but this is just one question that I sorta want to know at least a little of the answer to.

Thank you.

And also, I'm a little curious as to what people think about it - will homosexuality ever be accepted by the Church at all?

[/quote]

As has been posted, homosexual behavior is considered sinful and as such unacceptable by the Church (as is fornication and adultry). Homosexual orientation is not considered sinful. You will not go to hell for the sole reason of being attracted to other men (assuming you're a guy :))

[quote="Et_Cetera, post:2, topic:206082"]
I don't believe that it is a choice at all. It's a shame that Catholicism doesn't accept it more. It's one of the reasons that I no longer consider myself a Catholic. I'm not gay, but two of my best friends are, and I don't think that some people realize how much the Church's view really hurts them.

[/quote]

Assuming that you are making the distinction between homosexual behavior and homosexual orientation (which I'm not clear that you are), are you saying that it's shameful that the Church doesn't accept homosexual behavior more or isn't more accepting of homosexual persons more?

[quote="Tietjen, post:7, topic:206082"]
I believe it is a choice. Here's why... It's like when a heterosexual man gets married, he still finds other females attractive. God's law says that he may not participate in adultery, so he CHOOSES to deny his human instinct and respect his wife and their marriage. In the case of a homosexual, they too may have an attraction toward a person (of the same sex in this case); BUT if they CHOOSE to place their desire before the will of God, then they are sinning. The Bible is clear on this issue (homosexual behavior = sin) and if ANYONE, homosexual or otherwise, CHOOSES sin over God they're wrong. If your friends have been hurt by the Church's (and God's) stand on this issue, it does not have a bearing on what is right or wrong. Remind them how badly God is hurt by their choice of putting Him second to their sin.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#10

[quote="Draggar, post:1, topic:206082"]
I don't really understand the reasoning behind why it's supposed to be a choice? Who is to say it is not born into someone? I don't mean to insult anyone or anything. I just don't get it. But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell, but this is just one question that I sorta want to know at least a little of the answer to.

Thank you.

And also, I'm a little curious as to what people think about it - will homosexuality ever be accepted by the Church at all?

[/quote]

Dear Draggar.
The Church does not teach that homosexuality is a choice.
The Church is still listening to the scolars of medicine and psychology to determine the causes of homosexuality, and has declared no cause for it thus far.
Neither does the Church "not accept homosexuality". Homosexuality is a reality, and is thus dealt with by the Church as is everything pertaining to the difficulties facing man as a moral and rational being. The Church also accepts sickness, old age etc as realities, and realise also the challenges that are inherent in these realities.
Homosexuality is not a sin in itself, just as my own heterosexuality is not a sin, although both forms of sexuality can be used sinfully.
If you engage in sexual acts outside of marriage or in a way which is objectifying, closed of from marital unification(total gift of self for life, body and soul) and procreation, you are sinning.
That means that a whole lot of us have to be very strong in the Lord, asking always for His help not to fall into temptation.. I speak of those of us who are either disabled and cant have a sexual life ever, those of us who are not married and thus have to live in chastity, and those who, like you have no attraction for the opposite sex.
I have met people who claim that they were healed from homosexuality and now live happily as heterosexual persons, enjoying the blessings that come with that.
Homosexuals are no better and no worse that anyone else. We all have our fights. If you condemn youself to hell, know at this moment, that if was not the Lord who did it. He has predestined no one to hell and He has no favourites ( sorry if anyone who is reading along just got dissapointed ;). )

I have met quite a few good Christians here on the Forum, who are homosexuals but who are not sinning against God by engaging in sexual sins. I think we all admire these people tremendously for their testimony to all of us, of the cross they bear through the help of God.

I hope this helps.
I answer as a student at a theological school and got this answer from my professors there. I also answer you as an unmarried person who has had her own struggles in the area of chastity vs. sin, and knows its a hard battlefield.
Lets fight the good fight, dear brother or sister.

Jesus bless you,
Peace and shalom


#11

To engage in the homosexual act is a choice.


#12

[quote="Draggar, post:1, topic:206082"]
I don't really understand the reasoning behind why it's supposed to be a choice? Who is to say it is not born into someone? I don't mean to insult anyone or anything. I just don't get it. But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell, but this is just one question that I sorta want to know at least a little of the answer to.

>>The choice is in the action, not the feeling. I have lots of feelings that I don't act on.

Thank you.

And also, I'm a little curious as to what people think about it - will homosexuality ever be accepted by the Church at all?

>>I would have to say no unless the homosexual act can lead to making babies.

[/quote]

Share the peace and God Bless.


#13

[quote="Draggar, post:1, topic:206082"]
But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell,
?

[/quote]

I don't know what religious belief you subscribe to but this does not accurately represent Catholic teaching.

science has not presented a shred of proof one way or the other on whether on not someone can be "born gay" so the Church does not presume to state it, either. What the Church does teach is the God's revelation about the nature of his creation, Man and Woman, and the natural law that defines their use of the immense gift of sexuality as he intended. That will never change because natural law will never change, or can the Creator change.

This circumstance, like everything else that comes our way in life whether it is a gift, talent, temptation, or inclination to harmful behavior, can be a path to holiness and union with God if we allow him to use even the most difficult challenges in order to mold us to his will. If you make that your goal, the answers to your hardest questions will be given to you.

An inclination to any sin is not sinful in and of itself, but is the damaged part of human nature we call "original sin" in that it came into the human race in its origin through the sin of Adam and Eve, which was their rejection of God's will and attempt to subtitute their own wills for His. The homosexual inclination is not sinful in and of itself, but the behavior, which is a choice most definitely, is a sin because it frustrates natural law, that is, the sexual order which God placed in humans of each gender at creation.

I have a disorder, diabetes, which may be in part genetic, inherited, or result from something present at birth, and in part from lifestyle choices or other influences over which I had no control such as childhood illness. REgardless, the disorder itself gives me the inclination to eat certain harmful foods--foods that are harmless or even beneficial to non-diabetics, but hurtful to me--and I know I must resist this powerful inclination to keep my health. This does not make me a bad person, it just means I have a challenge others do not face. But they also have challenges foreign to me that I don't face or understand. But we all need compassion for each other.


#14

As a bisexual putting aside wanting to act on her tendencies for the sake of pursuing a vocation, I must thank you guys for your kindness.

While many will argue that it's unfair that we aren't allowed to have sexual relations, it's part of the Catholic church as a whole to live in chastity.

After all, if you're heterosexual and you don't ever marry, you're asked of the same thing.

And if you DO marry, you're asked to only do so with your partner, and with the upmost respect for each other.


#15

Haven't we beaten this topic to death several times already?

Having homosexual tendencies is not sinfully wrong, according to The Church.

Choosing to engage in homosexual activities is inherently grievously and morally wrong, being contrary to both nature and to the teachings of The Church.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/ponyguy/beatdeadhorse.gif


#16

Thanks, everyone. And by the way, I'm a girl.

I know the whole thing about tendencies and attraction and being called to a chaste life. I've been here before and I know the whole "chaste or bust" deal. I guess I didn't word my question right, but that's okay. I get the rules, and the belief. I just don't understand it. I can't completely fathom the reasoning behind it. Thanks for trying to explain it.

I'll admit - while I am chaste right now due to the fact that I don't have a girlfriend, I don't plan on staying that way forever. I understand that the homosexual behavior is a choice, but I do not understand why, if for all the wonderful things a person can do in their life, if they are homosexual and unchaste, they are put down so hard. If the "sin" of a homosexual act is something that you don't personally understand as a sin, if you're not going to just take peoples' word for it, but you otherwise sin less than the average person... I just don't get it. I mean, I have a strong relationship with God. I am very spiritual. I just feel like I am not being called to a life completely free of the "homosexual act". I will find a single partner to stay with forever, and I'm not sorry to say that they will be a girl. I don't understand how something that feels so natural could be shot down as "unnatural". There are gay animals, for goodness' sake. Nobody's telling them to live a chaste life, or hurting them for not.

I just don't get the reasoning. The concept is familiar to me and I've seen it repeated over and over here. Yes, the Church is fine with SSA. I know that.

Thank you. I'm trying to be as courteous as I can about this.


#17

[quote="Draggar, post:16, topic:206082"]
I don't understand how something that feels so natural could be shot down as "unnatural".

[/quote]

You have to be very carefull about feelings because feelings are very poor guides. I feel attracted to women other than my wife. Would you suggest that it is ok for me to have sex with them because it feels natural and because there are plenty of animals who are not monogamous? Is that what God wants from me?

One thing that separates us from animals is that we have the ability to not act on our feelings.

Peace

Tim


#18

[quote="Orogeny, post:17, topic:206082"]
You have to be very carefull about feelings because feelings are very poor guides. I feel attracted to women other than my wife. Would you suggest that it is ok for me to have sex with them because it feels natural and because there are plenty of animals who are not monogamous? Is that what God wants from me?

One thing that separates us from animals is that we have the ability to not act on our feelings.

Peace

Tim

[/quote]

Probably not. That is commitment. If I commit myself to a single person like you have but that person is another girl, it is still commitment. And this is just my personal belief, but that's not what I meant by 'feeling'. Attraction has never been a 'feeling' to me, but that's just me.


#19

[quote="Draggar, post:18, topic:206082"]
Probably not. That is commitment. If I commit myself to a single person like you have but that person is another girl, it is still commitment. And this is just my personal belief, but that's not what I meant by 'feeling'. Attraction has never been a 'feeling' to me, but that's just me.

[/quote]

No, it is not a commitment, it is a sacramental bond. It is so strong that one of the ten commandments specifically addresses the situation.

Perhaps you can clarify what you meant when you wrote "I don't understand how something that feels so natural could be shot down as "unnatural".

What if your attraction wasn't for another woman, but was for a married man? Would you still be determined to act out on your attraction?

Peace

Tim


#20

[quote="Draggar, post:1, topic:206082"]
I don't really understand the reasoning behind why it's supposed to be a choice? Who is to say it is not born into someone? I don't mean to insult anyone or anything. I just don't get it. But I am gay. And I guess I'm going to hell, but this is just one question that I sorta want to know at least a little of the answer to.

Thank you.

And also, I'm a little curious as to what people think about it - will homosexuality ever be accepted by the Church at all?

[/quote]

Okay. Let's do a little reasoning here.

Suppose I was born with an inclination to murder other folks. (This is just an example, okay?) It was inborn into me, or so I think. It's on my mind all the time. I am not insane, so I have a choice as to whether to actually murder someone or not. But the inclination is certainly there.

If I never murder anyone, am I a murderer? I would say certainly not.

By the same token, those who claim to have homosexual inclinations seem to immediately label themselves as "gay" (or homosexuals, if you're not interested in politics). What if someone never committed a homosexual act? Would they still be considered a homosexual? I would say, like the above example, certainly not.

Let's leave out those who are clinically insane, and therefore not responsible for their actions for the sake of our discussion.

What about the rest of us? Will God hold everyone else accountable with respect to His law even if we have a temptation to break it? You betcha! Without temptation, there is no virtue. If you aren't tempted in a particular area, then you can't build up virtue in that area. We all have temptations, specific to ourselves. But God knows this and our test is to overcome our temptations and do HIS will, not ours.

Is murder against His law? Yep. Are homosexual acts against His law? Yep.

Any questions or discussion? :)


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