How is this fair??


#1

Since joining this forum and making a conscious effort, I have started to talk more about God/Christ/Church to people that I wouldn’t have normally, and have found a lot more Christians around my workplace than I realised. Anyway, I have been speaking to a guy I work with, who is in a very similar situation to me (married to a divorcee) but he is allowed to take communion!

He was an Anglican, and married his wife (who was previously divorced and non baptised), which was no bar to him being in communion in his church. Earlier this year, he and some others from his congregation joined the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham and therefore entered into full communion with the Catholic Church.

It is totally not fair that he and I are in the same situation but he is allowed to still receive communion! :mad:


#2

There may be (probably are) details of his situation which you may not know.


#3

Have you sought to have your situation investigated?

Peace
James


#4

Agnes - after you reply I went and spoke to him at lunch break just now - no there are no special circumstances.

It seems that since half a congregation came across to the Ordinariate, with their Priest that it is all just business as usual.

I specifically asked if he didn’t need to seek an annulment of the previous marriage and he said he assumed not since his priest knew his background when they were Anglicans and hadn’t mentioned anything now they were Catholics.

All seems a bit dodgy to me.


#5

JRKH - Thanks. For more explanation see my first post on these forums http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=684718 but short answer is it would be up to my wife to seek the annulment, and as a non practicing Jew she is not inclined to “It’s between you and your church”. :frowning:

Took advice from this forum and made appointment to see my parish priest, who had no advice to offer me other than to pray for her conversion and to not to continue to have sex with her. Totally understand the advice but after 10 years of marriage and a six year old daughter I know that will drive her away.

Sorry if I am sounding a little bitter, but thats the way I feel at the moment.


#6

[quote="Meklin, post:5, topic:288373"]
JRKH - Thanks. For more explanation see my first post on these forums http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=684718 but short answer is it would be up to my wife to seek the annulment, and as a non practicing Jew she is not inclined to "It's between you and your church". :(

Took advice from this forum and made appointment to see my parish priest, who had no advice to offer me other than to pray for her conversion and to not to continue to have sex with her. Totally understand the advice but after 10 years of marriage and a six year old daughter I know that will drive her away.

Sorry if I am sounding a little bitter, but thats the way I feel at the moment.

[/quote]

Thanks.

I just read the other post...(The link above did not work but I found it HERE.)

You are indeed in a difficult situation and I can understand your frustration.

Frankly I do not understand your wife's attitude - that she is not willing to seek an annulment in order to bring peace to her husband who she claims to Love. Especially since, given your description, the annulment would, in all likelihood, be granted easily. I have to ask myself, what does this say about her love for you? Does she not understand how difficult this is for you? How you are tormented by being separated from the Eucharist? That you would not ask this of her if it weren't of critical importance to you? How is it that she can say no to you??? I just don't understand...

But - I do not wish to judge since I do not know her. There may well be factors involved that I have no idea of.

You stated in the other thread that, "Her view is that it’s between me and my church".
I wonder what her response would be if you told her that you could no longer have sexual relations....Not that you didn't want to but that you can't - and when she objected you say - Sorry dear but, "it’s between me and my church"...:shrug:
I just can't see that going over too well.

Sorry - I know that this is all off topic here....

I can't really say what is "fair" either for you or for friend who is receiving through the ordinariate, nor can we really offer much more advice than to simply keep praying for you wife's conversion - or at least that her heart soften to the point where she sees how difficult this is all being for you. A real problem that I see is that, while you don't wish to do something to drive her away (you love her), she seems to have no problem doing something that drives a wedge between you and Christ in the Eucharist...

Forgive me if any of the above sounds overly harsh. I too have some negative history when it comes to marital relations and occasionally it still rears it's ugly head....:blush:

Peace
James


#7

James - You have hit the nail on the head!

Her attitude towards the whole thing winds me up tremendously!

You make an interesting an valid point regarding turning her words around. Maybe I need to just keep the explanations and pressure up on her and perhaps with people prayers she may not convert but may at least agree to explore the issue of annulment.

You are of course right in that I seem to be worried more about hurting the feelings of the woman I love more than hurting my Lord and Saviour. It is something I have identified myself and try to pray about. I suspect deep sown I do this because I know who is likely to be more forgiving… but I know it has to stop. Please pray it stops with her opening her heart rather than me having to break it.

As regards

Forgive me if any of the above sounds overly harsh.

I don’t find your words too harsh - I prefer people to be direct and say what they feel. My thanks for your (and others) support and prayers.

Mek


#8

Make an appointment with the bishop. Discuss your situation and see if you can file an annulment based on prior bond.

Marriages are public record so it should easily show that you married someone who was already married.

I know at least one case with a situation like this amd a woman filed an annulment without the help of the ex-husband.

Every situation is different and it is hard to understand why some of us are burdened more than others. God will only give you what you can handle. Don’t give up.

Take my advice: Skip the priest and go to the bishop’s office. They may know more than your parish priest does.


#9

[quote="Meklin, post:7, topic:288373"]
James - You have hit the nail on the head!

Her attitude towards the whole thing winds me up tremendously!

You make an interesting an valid point regarding turning her words around. Maybe I need to just keep the explanations and pressure up on her and perhaps with people prayers she may not convert but may at least agree to explore the issue of annulment.

You are of course right in that I seem to be worried more about hurting the feelings of the woman I love more than hurting my Lord and Saviour. It is something I have identified myself and try to pray about. I suspect deep sown I do this because I know who is likely to be more forgiving... but I know it has to stop. Please pray it stops with her opening her heart rather than me having to break it.

As regards I don't find your words too harsh - I prefer people to be direct and say what they feel. My thanks for your (and others) support and prayers.

Mek

[/quote]

Glad that my post did not upset.

Something that just occurred to me is that there may be - indeed ARE lessons to be learned here even while you seek resolution to the apparent issue. Often times these lessons take the form of learning patience and forbearance, growing in Love and understanding both of God and of your spousal relations.

I note in your posts that you tend toward frustration, not at all uncommon or even unexpected, but frustration can also be counter-productive. It can lead to emotional outbursts, ill advised comments etc. that wind up having very negative effects in our interpersonal relations.

Likewise, these things can drive us from prayer, block grace and our ability to hear God's promptings.

As difficult as all these things are - and troubling - we need to foster an inner peace and acceptance. Certainly this is not an easy thing when we are so frustrated...But trust me on this...there are great benefits.

I often have this image in my mind that is so hard to explain with words. It goes like this.
There is God - there is you - and there is someone who you want to get closer to God.

You have two choices. You can push them toward God - but that means that you must get further from God than they already are - or you can draw them towards God in which case you remain close to God yourself - first leading them, then walking beside them.

Don't know if that image will help you or not...but thought I'd sahre.

Peace
James


#10

[quote="Meklin, post:1, topic:288373"]

He was an Anglican, and married his wife (who was previously divorced and non baptised), which was no bar to him being in communion in his church. Earlier this year, he and some others from his congregation joined the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham and therefore entered into full communion with the Catholic Church.

[/quote]

The technical term for this is: a mistake.

The divorced and remarried Anglican entering the Ordinariate must go through the same process as any person desiring to enter into full communion with the Church: a tribunal investigation for nullity or in circumstances where the Pauline or Petrine Privilege apply then for dissolution of the bond.

See question #15 on this Q&A page:

ordinarychurch.org/information/q-a-s


#11

Thanks 1ke - I kind of suspected, when I calmed down and started thinking rationally, that it must be something like this. I think I owe it to my work mate to raise the issue with him now that I know the answer....

Mek


#12

This is such a difficult situation for you. I will pray for you and your family.

Since it’s a matter of public record. Get a certified copy of her marriage license and divorce papers. Then meet with your priest and ask for the forms for a Ligaman (prior bond) decree of nullity. Maybe if you have everything filled out maybe she’d be willing to sign it for you. The only snag may be the fact that she has to sign it in front of the priest. She doesn’t even need the cooperation of her ex-husband.

For the life of me I don’t understand why she won’t do this for you. Maybe she’s afraid that the next step will be that you will want your marriage convalidated in the church. Even though she’s a non-practicing Jew one’s religious heritage is still deeply rooted.

Please keep us posted.


#13

[quote="maltmom, post:12, topic:288373"]
This is such a difficult situation for you. I will pray for you and your family.

Since it's a matter of public record. Get a certified copy of her marriage license and divorce papers. Then meet with your priest and ask for the forms for a Ligaman (prior bond) decree of nullity. Maybe if you have everything filled out maybe she'd be willing to sign it for you. The only snag may be the fact that she has to sign it in front of the priest. She doesn't even need the cooperation of her ex-husband.

For the life of me I don't understand why she won't do this for you. Maybe she's afraid that the next step will be that you will want your marriage convalidated in the church. Even though she's a non-practicing Jew one's religious heritage is still deeply rooted.

Please keep us posted.

[/quote]

The OP is not attempting to be free of his current wife.

Ligamen would be grounds for nullity of his current marriage, not her first marriage.

Convalidating his marriage is exactly his purpose here.


#14

I guess I made a reading error as well.

He needs to have a heartfelt discussion with his wife. It will be important for her to understand that even though she is Jewish and is not a part of the Catholic Church that the responsibility to the Church is both of theirs by virtue of their commitment to each other. This situation is going to take a lot if discussion and understanding between the OP and his wife.


#15

[quote="1ke, post:13, topic:288373"]
The OP is not attempting to be free of his current wife.

Ligamen would be grounds for nullity of his current marriage, not her first marriage.

Convalidating his marriage is exactly his purpose here.

[/quote]

You're right. I know better. I'm blame it on no coffee on a Monday morning.

I'm so sorry for my error. I didn't mean to mislead him.


#16

No harm done - It made me think for a second but then I realised the same.

But thanks for taking an interest!

Mek


#17

[quote="Meklin, post:1, topic:288373"]

It is totally not fair that he and I are in the same situation but he is allowed to still receive communion! :mad:

[/quote]

Be happy that your priest know that you should not receive communion. No priest has the authority to give it to someone in the state of mortal sin, he is just hurting this mans soul.
It is actually unfair to him!


#18

Thank you for understanding. I’d never want to mislead someone.

I will be praying for you.


#19

This is indeed quite the odd situation. Obtaining an annulment might take time but I doubt there would be much controversy over the outcome. A divorce 10 months after the wedding day is nearly proof positive in and of itself that one or both parties didn't know what he or she or they were doing. I'm not saying a tribunal would look at that and say "ipso facto, here's your decree of nullity" but that's some strong prima facie grounds nonetheless.

And really, why should the OP's wife be against this? If it's important to him it should be important to her and there's no one saying she needs to give up her even limited Judaism to settle this issue. So it's rather bizarre to me.


#20

[quote="The_Bucket, post:19, topic:288373"]

And really, why should the OP's wife be against this? If it's important to him it should be important to her and there's no one saying she needs to give up her even limited Judaism to settle this issue. So it's rather bizarre to me.

[/quote]

I think this is the main question here. Some people feel very touchy when it comes to religion and feel threatened for a variety of reasons. We don't know the circumstances in which the OP got married, what the agreement was regarding religion, what the wife's expectations were, etc.

I hope that the OP will be able to communicate what he needs to his wife and that with time she will be more open to the idea. Putting this on the prayers intention page would be a good place to start.

Praying for you OP.


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