How many Orthodox recognize Catholic Sacraments?

Basically, same question as the title page: How many Orthodox recognize Catholic Sacraments? And who are they? Is there a list on a site or clear declarations of understanding? I thought there was an official dialogue between Orthodox and Catholics about many of these issues.

I know about the Vatican website. I need to know what the Orthodox sites have to say on these issues. Thank you. :shrug:

RJ

There has never been a headcount done so I can not tell you how many do.

I’d say most (not all) would recognize a Catholic baptism.

The validity of any others aren’t an issue for us and therefore you won’t find official opinions on them anywhere.

I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but here is the Orthodox of America website: oca.org/ I’d be happy to answer your questions, but I don’t know if there are directed at us posters, or just Orthodox in general.

108 million.

I think he means the Orthodox hierarchy, i.e., bishops/patriarchs.

You can go on the USCCB website for all the conventions, conferences, theological discussions between Catholics and Orthodox dating from the 70’s (I believe) till the present day.

Many Orthodox, (but again not all) would point out they do not speculate on the validity of sacraments outside their own Church.

Would this be the laity? It seems that with regard to the Orthodox hierarchy, it depends where they are geographically located (Arabs, Russians, Romania accept, Greece, Serbia. . . etc., do not).

Well OP did ask for sources to show this acceptance, and you’ve got me curious.

I think it was an article written by David Bentley Hart, I’m not quite sure, i.e., I read it not so long ago. I remember the author (Orthodox) was talking about rebaptism and other issues concerning our communions. I think it’s this article “The Myth of Schism”.

fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.ca/2012/05/myth-of-schism-by-david-bentley-hart.html

I’m pretty positive that the Russian Orthodox Church accepts our sacraments (read it in their history), however, ROCOR does not.

That is true of baptism, notably the only sacrament that from our point of view there is a reason we must decide whether or not it is acceptable. I’m thinking of the other sacraments though.

For example the Eucharist (we aren’t allowed to partake so it doesn’t matter) or Marriage (Long held to be sanctified by the conversion of one member, and therefore it doesn’t matter), or even Christmation (repeatable in our view (though not in the Catholic view), so it doesn’t matter much).

There is a wide variation and honestly there’s no way to pinpoint numbers.

However, it must be emphasized in this thread that those mentioning “acceptance” of Catholic sacraments need to be strongly qualified. Just because some Orthodox Churches do not baptize those they receive from Catholicism (the particular reception varies), does not necessarily imply an acceptance of the sacrament itself. There are those that explicitly reject Catholic baptism as grace-filled, but will still receive converts through chrismation (perhaps retroactively filling the baptism with grace, but I’m not altogether certain). Others, however, do view the Catholic baptism as grace-filled, but usually deficient in some way or other that is “corrected” through chrismation. Even others will accept the baptism completely as such without any deficiencies.

So with those simplified qualifications in mind, the specific Churches will have a variety of opinions, and it will vary even further on the Catholic Church in question (Latin, Melkite, etc.). For example, the Antiochian Orthodox Church is more inclined to view the sacraments of Melkites as completely legitimate than the sacraments of Latins.

Thanks for the information!:thumbsup:

Among the Oriental Orthodox Churches:

YES for the Syriac Orthodox Church, and the Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church

YES for the Syriac Malankara Orthodox Church

YES for the Armenian Apostolic Church

TRADITIONALLY YES for the Coptic Orthodox Church. HH Pope Shenoute III, of thrice-blessed memory, in 1973 affirmed in a common declaration with HH Pope Paul VI that the Coptic Orthdox Church and the Catholic Church believe in the same 7 Sacraments. Currently, the official position is that Catholics require rebaptism upon entry into the Coptic Orthodox Church, which was instituted by HH Pope Shenoute himself (imo, perhaps due to the Christological agreement between the ACOE and the CC). There is no official synodal comment on the other Sacraments of the Catholic Church, but there are those who have inferred a like non-recognition of the other Catholic Sacraments. I have, however, read a commentary from a priest in the British Orthodox Church (Coptic) that the rebaptism of Catholics is not intended to imply that Catholic Baptism lacks Grace, but rebaptism is required to complete the form that is incomplete in the Catholic Baptism (i.e., triple immersion). I have also conversed with more hard-line Copts who are of the opinion that rebaptism is required because Catholic Baptism lacks Grace.

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church (IIRC) follows the line of their mother Church, the COC.

Among other apostolic Churches:

YES for the Assyrian Church of the East

YES for the Polish National Catholic Church

Blessings,
Marduk

Nine Two, I’ve read several sources that the Russian Orthodox Church does indeed accept all 7 sacraments of the CC, I found this:

But Moscow, the socalled “third Rome”, did not take sides with the other orthodox patriarchates, on the contrary, it decreed in 1757 that the sacraments of the Church of the west had to be recognized as valid also in the future. This was reconfirmed by the Moscow metropolitan Filaret Drozdov in the 19th century who on Dec. 7, 1995, was canonized in the Kremlin Cathedral in Moscow. Metropolitan Sergij confirmed the validity of the Catholic sacraments again in 1931 and 1936. Furthermore, the Russian Orthodox Church adopted the recommendations of Vatican Council II concerning the “communicatio in sacris” Dec. 16, 1969, confirmed them again July 26, 1986 when a delegation of the German Bishops’ Conference happened to be in Moscow but suspended them out of consideration for the other orthodox churches.

oki-regensburg.de/r_oek_e.htm

The “Russian” Approach

“Russian” practice and the theological rationale behind it should strike Roman Catholics and other western Christians as comfortingly familiar. Pioneered by the Ukrainian Peter Moghila in the 17th century, this approach is strongly influenced by Latin scholasticism. It not only has dominated the practice of the Russian Orthodox Church and of many others but also has deeply influenced manual theology throughout the Orthodox world. According to this “Russian” approach, mainline Trinitarian Protestants (and also unconfirmed Roman Catholics) are to be received by anointing with chrism following the full post-baptismal rite. This is not just because Protestants deny that chrismation is a sacrament. Protestants lack the apostolic structures of ministry which the Orthodox believe are necessary for the Church. Not having bishops in “apostolic succession,” they lack “valid orders” and in turn, the capacity for consecrating chrism and for conferring “valid chrismation.” Those baptized among them have, as it were, an incomplete Christian initiation. While they have a “valid baptism,” canonically they are in a position roughly analogous to that of a person baptized in an emergency by a layman. On the other hand, confirmed Latin Catholics and Eastern Catholics, like non-Chalcedonians, are to be received by confession of the Orthodox faith, since they have “valid orders” and therefore also a valid “sacrament of chrismation.”9

9 Cf. the Russian Orthodox Church’s rite for reception of Roman Catholic converts (1756, 1776, 1831, 1845, 1858,1895). A French translation of the 1895 edition of the rite is presented by L. Petit, “L’entrée des Catholiques dans I’Eglise Orthodoxe,” Echos d’Orient 2 (1898-99) 129-38 at 136-37. Substantially the same rite, but with diverse
additions chiefly intended to make it appropriate also for persons coming from other groups, is presented in English translation in Isabel F. Hapgood’s Service Book of the Holy Orthodox-Catholic Apostolic Church, a work commissioned by Bishop Nicholas of the Russian North American mission diocese and first published under his successor, Archbishop Tikhon, later Patriarch of Moscow (3rd edition, Syrian Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese, Brooklyn, NY, 1956) 454-63. The rite begins with a carefully worded series of renunciations and affirmations (e.g., “Do you renounce the false teaching which claims that the dogma of the procession of the Holy Spirit is not sufficiently expressed by the word of Christ the Savior himself, ‘Who proceeds from the Father,’ and that it is necessary to add to these words of Christ ‘and from the Son’?”). These are followed by the command “Enter into the Orthodox Church…”; Psalm 67; the prayer “O Lord God Almighty, who dost always offer diverse ways of repentance unto those who have sinned…”; the affirmation “The Orthodox-Catholic faith which I now confess…”; the command “Bow your knees before God…”; and the absolution “Our Lord and God Jesus Christ, who committed unto his apostles the keys of the Kingdom…” (cf. Hapgood 461-63). Note also the provisions of the 1986 Priest’s Handbook of the Midwestern Diocese of the Orthodox Church in America (OCA), pp. 11-12: “Converts from religions which do not practice Holy Baptism or which do not baptize with water in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are received through the sacrament of Holy Baptism, Chrismation, and Communion… After a proper period of catechetical instruction and affirmation of the Orthodox faith, those who
have previously been baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are received by the appropriate rite of reception… Non-Chalcedonian Christians (Copts, Armenians, Jacobites, etc.) and validly confirmed Roman Catholic Christians are received by Holy Confession, followed by reception, absolution, and Holy Communion…”

jbburnett.com/resources/erickson_reception-svtq97.pdf

Indeed, Orthodox do not even speak of ‘validity’, it really is not a part of Orthodox vocabulary.

We speak in terms ‘is something Orthodox?’ Right or correct believing.

I was thinking, and I think the OP was thinking of the actual Church sources. Where the Church administration has put this into writing.

I’m minimally aware of the 1757 decision and if I recall it was made for the sole purpose of deciding how laity should be received into the Church. I’m also aware that it wasn’t the first such decision of that nature, and that it has been overturned and then returned to by the MP a number of times.

I kind of thought someone would call me on that number, which was just a wild guess. (Maybe you’re all just being polite. :cool:)

Actually, it was reaffirmed many times during the course of Russian history because it was agreed upon as true, not because it had to be reinstated as such by other MPs who didn’t believe in the validity of Catholic sacraments (I had read an amazing article by a Russian archimandrite on this, I’ll try to find it for you). I think there was at one point in time, I’m not sure if it was Philaret who had questioned and/or reversed this belief, again, I would have to find that article I had once read. Also, wanted to know your opinion of this, as it was written in the footnote (so I’m not sure if you read it):

**Note also the provisions of the 1986 Priest’s Handbook of the Midwestern Diocese of the Orthodox Church in America (OCA), pp. 11-12: **“Converts from religions which do not practice Holy Baptism or which do not baptize with water in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are received through the sacrament of Holy Baptism, Chrismation, and Communion… After a proper period of catechetical instruction and affirmation of the Orthodox faith, those who have previously been baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are received by the appropriate rite of reception… Non-Chalcedonian Christians (Copts, Armenians, Jacobites, etc.) **and validly confirmed Roman Catholic Christians are received by Holy Confession, followed by reception, absolution, and Holy Communion…” **

p.s. What I’ve read concerning the Russian Orthodox Church is that they believe our sacraments to be valid (to use a Western term). I just read the story of archimandrite Zenon who stated this very thing: keston.org.uk/kns/misc/14ARCHIM.html

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