How much is too much?


#1

In trying to become more involved with our school community and the other clubs, we have outreached our ministry to attempt dialogue and interrelations with the Muslim Student Association.
How far, as faithful Catholics, can we go in promoting ecumenical dialogue? Do we participate in their prayers, or remain silent? Do they participate in our prayers, or remain silent? How much is too much?

Thank you for your comments,
Apologist4Life


#2

I think it’s traditionally understood that the God the Muslims worship is the same as our God. There are conspiracy theories abound, but I’ll take it from the horses mouth that Muslims worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. So (I’m no expert), as long as the prayers simply show worship to the One God I don’t see anything wrong with that at all.

I went to a dinner at a Jewish friends house and had no problems participating in prayers, I don’t think it’s much different for Muslims.


#3

Mike, thank you for your quick reply. Yes, I was thinking the same thing as well (about worsipping the One True God). My only concern is whether any specific references would be made Muhammad or solo-Islamic theological concepts. Since the prayers that I have heard are in arabic, it is difficult for an English-speaking Catholic to know.


#4

I’ve heard the same thing about all of us worshipping the same God, but I have to tell you, Allah does not have the same attributes as the God we worship in the Trinity. That makes me a little leary about whether they are indeed the same. Muslims do not believe in God as Father like we do. They believe in God as Judge primarily and from what’s always been Islam’s intolerance toward infidels, I’d say they’re strong in God as an avenger or executioner. There is a lot less love and mercy going on in Islam.

I don’t know if they would even feel comfortable praying to God the Father with you. You might possibly have to keep from addressing Him in that way, and that’s where I would definitely draw the line.

Just a thought! I’m no expert by any means, but I would keep some of these things in mind when you dialogue with them and see what reactions you may get.


#5

[quote=Mike_D30]I think it’s traditionally understood that the God the Muslims worship is the same as our God. There are conspiracy theories abound, but I’ll take it from the horses mouth that Muslims worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. So (I’m no expert), as long as the prayers simply show worship to the One God I don’t see anything wrong with that at all.

I went to a dinner at a Jewish friends house and had no problems participating in prayers, I don’t think it’s much different for Muslims.
[/quote]

Muslim God the same as the Judeo/Christian God? Would God approve of the Muslims at all since He sent His only Son, our Lord and Saviour, into the world to save ALL men, including those who are now Muslim? Why does the world need a correction to Christianity by way of the Islamic religion. It is as if Jesus was insufficient for our redemption and that something was very lacking in His Incarnation and falling short of what we all need to be saved. Nonsense, this new religion is a cult and nothing more.


#6

Catechism of the Catholic Church

**841 **The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Muslims say they worship the God of Abraham. As such, even if they do not understand God’s nature completely, we can still offer prayers to Him together. We can even choose to refer to God as simply God, or Allah, accepting that Allah is one name for the God of Abraham. A name that incompletely understands the nature of God, but worship that SAME God nonetheless.

To do otherwise smacks me as people who say, “Catholics worship Mary” We explain our beliefs and people still don’t believe us.

God Bless,
Maria


#7

[quote=MariaG]Catechism of the Catholic Church

**841 **The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Muslims say they worship the God of Abraham. As such, even if they do not understand God’s nature completely, we can still offer prayers to Him together. We can even choose to refer to God as simply God, or Allah, accepting that Allah is one name for the God of Abraham. A name that incompletely understands the nature of God, but worship that SAME God nonetheless.

To do otherwise smacks me as people who say, “Catholics worship Mary” We explain our beliefs and people still don’t believe us.

God Bless,
Maria
[/quote]

“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”.
Matt 5:44

“Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into hearts of the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whome ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know”. Quran 8:60


“…if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also…” Matt 5:39

“Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack your first”.
Quran 9:13


“Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil agianst you falsely for my sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven.” Matt 5:11

“And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove your out, for persecution is worse than slaughter.” Quran 2:19

Is this the same God you are referring to??? Because we worship different Gods.


#8

[quote=MariaG]Catechism of the Catholic Church

**841 **The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Muslims say they worship the God of Abraham. As such, even if they do not understand God’s nature completely, we can still offer prayers to Him together. We can even choose to refer to God as simply God, or Allah, accepting that Allah is one name for the God of Abraham. A name that incompletely understands the nature of God, but worship that SAME God nonetheless.

To do otherwise smacks me as people who say, “Catholics worship Mary” We explain our beliefs and people still don’t believe us.

God Bless,
Maria
[/quote]

Yup, when in doubt refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, great post Maria.


#9

[quote=Apologist4Life]In trying to become more involved with our school community and the other clubs, we have outreached our ministry to attempt dialogue and interrelations with the Muslim Student Association.
How far, as faithful Catholics, can we go in promoting ecumenical dialogue? Do we participate in their prayers, or remain silent? Do they participate in our prayers, or remain silent? How much is too much?

Thank you for your comments,
Apologist4Life
[/quote]

ecumenical dialoge refers only to communication among Christian denominations with the Catholic Church. That term does not apply to contacts with non-Christian bodies.

In any ecumenacal dialoge the prayers that are common to all Christians are appropriate, such as praise music, the Our Father etc. Intercommunion is not permitted of course, not is active participation in liturgical rites or worship together. Appropriate examples would be choirs from several churches singing together on Thanksgiving day, a Christian music concert, a drama based on Gospel events, a Christmas pageant.

outreach to non-Christian groups would include education and information, dialogue on topics of common interest like social justice, world hunger, AIDS etc., informational meetings, working in common cause on campus issues, or pro-life efforts, for example. You may not participate in any formal worship. Be very careful about entering the sacred spaces of other religions, and do so only if invited by the head of the group, and obey strictly any of their customs such as removing shoes, or anything that does not violate the Catholic conscience. Also stay away from anything that gives the appearance of mocking or staging any of their worship, such as a Seder meal. This can easily give offense.


#10

" Muslims do not believe in God as Father like we do. They believe in God as Judge primarily and from what’s always been Islam’s intolerance toward infidels, I’d say they’re strong in God as an avenger or executioner. "
I’m not sure about this, and while I have to admit to having little knowledge on Islam, I do know that historically the muslims were very tolerant of Jews and Christians and differentiated between the people of the Book(Jews and Christians) and pagans or atheists.
In fact the arabs who conquered Syria and Egypt in teh 7th century appear to have been preferable for the Christians there, who had admittedly Monophysistic tendandcies, than their Byzantine Orthodox Christian masters.
There is however a new intolerant strain in modern Islam which has very little to do with the old noble and chivilrous Islam.


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