How Practical is it for Women to be Submissive to Their Husbands in Modern Society


#409

Of course. The question edges on nonsensical.


#410

Oh we can always rebel. Abraham against God, Sarah against her husband.


#411

Dave Ramsey would say that it’s both–neither spouse gets to just do their own thing with money, no matter who is earning money.

I’m happy that what you’re doing works for you, but I wouldn’t do it, and I wouldn’t recommend it to non-DINKs or couples without a large income. Financially struggling families cannot afford to have either spouse doing their own thing. Here are the rules that I would use:

–the budget is a joint agreement
–we don’t spend money outside or beyond the budget
–we don’t borrow money without both spousal approval and ideally, we don’t borrow at all
–any debt is family debt
–we make financial decisions together and don’t move forward on major decisions without consensus
–all spousal earnings and income are a family resource–if I make money, it goes into the family pot


#412

I meant that it’s really egotistical to equate anything you could demand of your wife with Abraham following an ordinance straight from the mouth of the Almighty.


#413

Bear in mind that there are a couple single ladies on the thread.

They are actually thinking about the question, do I want to sign up for this?


#414

You can always find people to help you justify your sin. I am sure your husband had no problem finding people who justice his purchases your family could ill afford. I choose the car as an extreme example to make a point but it did actually happen to a couple I knew. You would be surprised how many of our friends defended the wife’s purchase.

In my opinion a religion who names women like Joan of Arch and Catherine of Siena saints cannot support the idea women are expected to be meek door mats. The Blessed Mother didn’t check with Joseph before giving her yes to God. Proverbs 31 doesn’t describe a wife incapable of independent decisions.

So that’s obviously not what “submit” means in this context.

Yes, men and women have goofy ideas about marriage those are usually tempered once you face a living spouse with hopes, fears, needs and wants of their own.

Discussions like these often prey on women’s insecurities. These discussions encourage women to make chores a power play (what do you mean he won’t do his half?) or pushes them to make crazy decisions just to prove they can.

Also, there is a lack of empathy for men in these discussions. They have their own problems and issues. They feel the “burden” of marriage every bit as much as we do. It isn’t like they get to make all their decisions independently either. Many decisions are made by circumstances.

Why do I encourage wives to let their husbands have the final say as much as possible? Because like it or not the male ego thrives in such circumstances. Let him be king of his little corner of the world and he will move mountains for you and your children. That’s the best father you can give your kids.


#415

Other people can have whatever “rules” they like. No two couples are exactly alike.

i think the bottom line on this is there is no one size fits all approach to this, but couples need to have consideration for each other when planning big expenditures. My way is one way to solve. Your way is one way to solve. There may be other good ways out there. If a couple is staying married for decades using whatever their approach is, it’s obviously working for them and that’s great. It doesn’t mean everybody else has to do the exact same thing to have a successful marriage. I’m even willing to concede that I apparently have an “unusual” marriage based on the number of people who don’t think a Catholic married to a Protestant will work at all.

I do wish that more husbands AND wives would be fiscally responsible in terms of their expenditures, because I see a lot of people who just aren’t. If you don’t like that your spouse doesn’t make enough money, then make some yourself, or else learn to live on what they make. Unfortunately, many people will choose to overspend or complain or both.


#416

C’est moi. I really don’t see what I could stand to gain.


#417

Non sequitur.

Sarah didn’t have to follow Abraham to Canaan because God ordered him to go. She may or may not have known (or believed him).

She was his wife and he her husband. The rest of scripture practically drips with more of the same.


#418

I thought the exact same way as a single lady. Marriage just looked like a big pain in the neck because of all the expectations applied to it, most of which seemed to involve expecting the woman to act some particular way. I remember at age 16 being lectured by an optometrist (of all people) when I said if I married, I did not plan to take my husband’s name.

When I met my husband, it seemed like a lot of these “problems” just weren’t going to be problems.
May you meet someone who makes you feel the same way.


#419

Why?

If mom is going to be driving it 80% of the time and wants a minivan with sliding doors, why doesn’t mom get a minivan? Why would we want her husband to pick out an SUV or a sedan for her that she doesn’t even want? (Assuming we are staying within a budget, etc.)


#420

Well then why would you treat her as anything less than equal in the family decision making process?


#421

Because husband has taken on the huge responsibility of providing for 8 people or whatever, and maybe he can’t afford a minivan with sliding doors. I would hope he discusses it with his wife and they mutually agree on something they both like, but if he’s paying for it, at the end of the day he gets more of the say.


#422

I don’t, as a rule.

The invocation of the God-given role of headship is a rarity in my marriage. Even more so as time goes on.


#423

Wow! She’s got some pretty high standards for functionality. She didn’t go into details, so I’m not sure what she considers functional, but I guess I’m probably not it. My husband is a teacher who makes considerably less than $100,000 a year. We live in California, certainly not the cheapest place to live. We have six children, ranging in age from 15 to 2. The 15 year old and 13 year old are in school now, but they were home-schooled up until last year, when we made the decision to put them in school. The other four are still at home and I’m home schooling all but the two year old. The house is frequently a mess. I can’t remember the last time I deep cleaned anything except the bathrooms and kitchen, but I keep up on the laundry and everybody gets fed. I would certainly hire household help if I could afford it. I’ve had somebody come in to clean a couple of times and it is amazing. We do have family nearby, but except for emergencies, babysitting is usually on their terms, not ours. It is usually more trouble than it is worth to take the kids to my mom’s house, because I have to both drive them there and pick them up, which usually involves close to two hours of driving. These days, since we have teenagers, we can get out on a semi-regular basis. since we don’t have a lot of money, sometimes getting out means a walk together or grocery shopping. My husband is extremely helpful with the kids. He’s less helpful with the house, but will do anything I ask him to do. His big strength is that he can rally the kids to help in a way that I cannot. I tend to take it personally when people don’t see that I’m overwhelmed and step up to help on their own. I certainly do get overwhelmed. But overall, we’re very happy. 16 years ago, I left a professional job that I loved. I have not looked back. I love this life that we have chosen together and I know that we’re in it together. The struggles are not mine or his, they are ours. I guess I’m just bothered by the assertion in the article that a stay-at-home mom cannot be functional unless she has a small family and her husband makes more than $100,000 a year. That’s just ridiculous and shows a particular blindness to the everyday lives of people who do not have significant means. I don’t think it’s deliberate, I think the writer must be blissfully unaware that there are families with two working parents who make significantly less than that and are happy and functional.


#424

I think it’s just trashy to buy a car without getting a green light from husband or wife, assuming one isn’t a multimillionaire, of course. My husband is (thank goodness!) not a spender, and actually runs even small purchases past me before he does it (a recent one was a $23 Christmas gift). His particular faults are more in the direction of stinginess, which is not always fun to deal with (he wants to wear his clothing to rags), but thanks be to God, he has never unilaterally caused any financial distress to our family through overspending. (Pre-Dave Ramsey at our house, I occasionally OKed purchases that we couldn’t afford, but that was both our fault.)

But other people have husbands who are spenders–and there’s no income good enough that it can’t be overspent.

I don’t think regular posting CAF married ladies are, as a rule, prone to making large decisions without their husband’s approval. I’m sure that must happen somewhere, but it isn’t something that gets a lot of approval here.

Part of the way to make marriage less burdensome to men is to discourage them from the idea that they always need to be the Great and Powerful Oz, all-knowing, all-seeing, making all the important decisions for their families. Whew, isn’t it a relief not to have to carry that burden around?

I agree that both spouses should say “yes” to each other a lot and be positive as much as possible (at my house we believe in the 5:1 ratio of positive to negative interactions), but my experience (and the experience of many other women) does not support the idea that “he will move mountains for you and your children” if we just plump up his male ego enough. That was certainly not Captain Janeway’s experience–it just made her husband lazy and selfish. And frankly, I don’t think it’s very respectful to treat one’s husband like a big baby.


#425

Why would he get more of a say? That’s simply not how it works in our family. The fact that my husband earns the money does not affect decision-making in any way. In my family, I pay the bills and keep track of the budget. If my husband wants to buy something out of the ordinary, he always checks with me to make sure we can afford it. I don’t always check with him in the same way because I know how much money we have in any given month. When we were first married and both working, we kept separate accounts for convenience, but we always considered all of the money to be our money. That has not changed since I stopped bringing in an income. If that is not the arrangement that you are used to, I can understand why you would be adamantly opposed to a woman giving up her income.


#426

My mother didn’t work and would never have bought a car Dad did not approve of. And she drove it 100 percent of the time because Dad was sick and couldn’t drive.

My mother and dad were so much on the same page about everything that to my knowledge, they did not have disagreements about houses, cars, etc. and she trusted Dad’s judgment in the extreme.

I’m not used to couples having to have long discussions, debates and disagreements about monetary things or religious things or anything else. I’m used to marriages where people get along, and the arguments are more of the “I had a bad day and now you left dishes in the sink” sort of momentary blowup that happens like 2 times a year and is made up within a day.

Again, I realize everybody is different. I have no idea why you can’t just accept that my opinion is my opinion and if you want to have some different one, have it without asking me why I have mine. There’s no rule book that says we all have to think alike. If you want to run your marriage differently and it works for you, have at it, just don’t tell me how to think or how to run mine, and I am not telling you to do anything except be responsible in your spending, which I assume you are doing.

Peace out…


#427

A family. That’s the purpose of marriage. If you don’t want a family, you have no business getting married. If you want one, it is a lot harder and far more unstable to build one outside of marriage.


#428

I’m assuming that we are staying within a particular budget and the question is just what kind of car are we getting for the same money.

Minivans are extremely practical for mothers with small children and if a mother wanted one, it would be weird and selfish of her husband to insist on buying something she didn’t want when she’s the one using it.

(We bought ours used with cash for under $12k.)


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