How strong was Mary's faith?


#1

I would think that someone who was sinless would have nigh perfect faith, yet Mary did not calm storms, walk on water, or cast out demons.

Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. Without warning, a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke him, saying, "Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!"
He replied, “You of little faith, why are you afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

  • Matthew 8:23-26

Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

  • Matthew 14:29-31

Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.
Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn’t we drive it out?"
He replied, “Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have the faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

  • Matthew 17:18-21

#2
  1. How do you know she did not?

  2. It wasn’t her calling.

  3. What about the Annunciation & the Wedding at Cana?

  4. I really don’t see what a has to do with b, btw.


#3

[quote=Angainor]I would think that someone who was sinless would have nigh perfect faith, yet Mary did not calm storms, walk on water, or cast out demons.

/QUOTE]
it is not recorded in the Gospels that Mary was ever required to walk on water or cast out demons. There were 12 guys in the boat and only Peter was asked to walk on water. There lots of disciples, but only the selected ones were sent two by two on their mission and given the authority to cast out demons. What is recorded in the Gospels is that Mary was asked to become the Mother of the Redeemer and that in perfect faith she said YES.
[/quote]


#4

i don’t believe mary was present any of the times you’ve quoted.

who knows how strong her faith was?

and do you think it pleases God for us to disparage Jesus’s mother?


#5

[quote=Angainor]I would think that someone who was sinless would have nigh perfect faith, yet Mary did not calm storms, walk on water, or cast out demons.
[/quote]

So what’s your point? I don’t think those are necessary for someone who has perfect faith, are they now? As well, Mary wasn’t one of the Trinity, so only Jesus can actually do that.


#6

Mary said “Yes” at the Annunciation, and that’s perfect enough for me!


#7

Well, let’s see. A young teenaged girl under a vow of
Celibacy is told she will conceive and bear a child; the child will be a king and lead His people. She asks how this shall be, the angel explains, her son shall be the offspring of the Holy Spirit (which she had never heard of before) and that in actuality the child would be the Son of God. She says, sure, bring it on. Knowing full well her betrothed husband will never believe her; she’ll probably get stoned to death for her “sin”. She say’s o.k., do it like you said. Did she have faith? No way, you’d do the same right??? LOL
Now the one who really has faith, Joseph. Think about it!!! Your “wife” who has vowed her virginity to God turns up pregnant? And was that really an angel I “dreamt” of last night? Or was it the wine? But no, he believes not only his wife is pregnant by God Himself, but she will remain a virgin. Yeah, old Joe has faith; I wish I had that much faith.


#8

preservative redemption from original sin and any consequences of original sin implying “taint of sin”, such as ignorance, concupiscence. Mary was not “freed” from a concupiscence she initially endured, even a moment, but was preserved from it and so never endured it. It is this mysterious state which forms the basis for Mary’s time of pilgrimage quite different from ours, not because hers was something other than human, but because more perfectly human, being full of grace, whereas our spiritual growth and experience is always, even after baptism, conditioned by the fact that we began human existence (conception) in the state of original sin (with all its consequences leading to personal sin).

2)- The grace of the Immaculate Conception in Mary stands to the fullness of sanctifying grace as the grace of the hypostatic union in Jesus syands to His sanctifying grace. In both, Jesus and Mary, there is growth not by way of an increase in sanctifying grace (in actu primo), but by way of the exercise of vital acts rooted in the fullness of grace. Whereas our practice of virtue under grace leads to an increase of grace itself as well as sharing in the holiness of Jesus consummated on Calvary (and in the Eucharist), growth in Jesus and Mary involves not a growth in grace and this progressive purgation from the consequences of imperfection, but simply passage towards that sanctity and exercise in virtue consummated on Calvary. Mary grew in faith, not by learning more articles of faith, or correcting imperfect understanding, but in the degree and way she lived that faith.

    • Mary was “deeply troubled,” not in the sense of a psychological crisis, but as our Lord in Gethsemane. Her natural inclination drew back from the demands of so awesome a vocation and task (the divine maternity pointed to the mystery of redemption, the sacrifice of Her divine Son). But her deliberate or elective will promptly accepted this - not my will be done but Thine be done - as our Lord in the garden.

marymediatrix.com/forum/Mediatrix/23.html


#9

[quote=Angainor]I would think that someone who was sinless would have nigh perfect faith, yet Mary did not calm storms, walk on water, or cast out demons.

Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. Without warning, a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”

He replied, “You of little faith, why are you afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

  • Matthew 8:23-26

Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

  • Matthew 14:29-31

Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.
Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn’t we drive it out?"
He replied, “Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have the faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

  • Matthew 17:18-21

[/quote]

What would you do is you saw your only son, promised by God, being scourged and crucified?

Mary had a lot of faith in God. She knew and understood. Mary is with her Son Jesus/God the Almighty! I know. You should try and pray the Holy Rosary for awhile; perhaps then you will understand as well.

God bless you.

raymonde.


#10

[quote=adstrinity]2) It wasn’t her calling.
[/quote]

Do you think if Mary could heal the sick she would not?


#11

[quote=me]I would think that someone who was sinless would have nigh perfect faith, yet Mary did not calm storms, walk on water, or cast out demons.
[/quote]

[quote=Milliardo]As well, Mary wasn’t one of the Trinity, so only Jesus can actually do that.
[/quote]

Not so. Do not forget, Peter did walk on water. He only began to sink when his faith faltered. “You of little faith, why do you doubt?”

Can you imagine how difficult it would be to really believe, with all your heart, you could walk on water? Maybe even sinless Mary could not do that.


#12

Gods peace be with you theophilus Angainor,

How sad the comment you made. Luther ‘reformed’ much of the Christian Faith right out of his faith. Luther reformed into his faith such things as he invented on the toilet like “faith alone”. Luther reformed right out of his plagerized bible 11+ books plus all the verses he rewrote to his own whim and fancy.

Luther prayed the rosary till the day he died. He invented faith alone and reformed it right into his own theology but even Luther dared not doubt Blessed Mary and prayed the rosary with her to Jesus. Funny thing, every one of the points in the 95 Thesis Luther made were in eror by him. For a supposed Doctor of theology he was seriously lacking in wisdom on Church Dogma Faith and Morals. (Can I even mention the word ‘morals’ in the same sentence with Luther?)

How sad that to this day reformers keep reforming Christian beliefs right out of their own theology. Look at the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons and Branch Davidians and all the Lutheran sects and all the Baptist sects and all the Methodist sects, etc., etc. etc. to infinity and beyound.

How sad the Catholic Church preserved a few books cannonized in her Bible and declared them inspired only to see reformers like a homosexual King of England and an immoral heritic monk change them and delete entire books from her bible.

How sad that we find no other way to belittle Catholics then to sling slander and insults at the very Blessed, Loving, Loyal, Devoted mother of our Lord. God found Blessed Mary so special that of all the women on earth she alone was blessed with our gift. You should thank her for the gift she gave you and the price she paid for your salvation.

How sad that only a portion of the life of Blessed Mary was recorded in Scripture. But by your comment you imply that every single detail of Jesus ‘WAS’ written in detail in Scripture - “WRONG”. If we only have a few details about Jesus what makes you think we should have every detail about Blessed Mary? What other divine revelations about her and her life do you have for us that are not found in Sacred Scripture - even an abridged and edited version by a dictator king like the KJV?

When you say “You of little faith” do you look into a mirror? Did Luther? Joseph Smith? Eddy? Baker? Koresch? Jim Jones? Me?

I have “Faith” not faith. I have Faith and as such Blessed Mary has a special place in my heart just as she had in the heart of her son, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Jesus loved her, I love her, even a heritic like Luther loved her, do you?

How sad, the point you attempt to make isn’t even backed by your own statements and verses you quote?:hmmm: Do you even have a point here other to insult the mother of God?:confused:


#13

ummm…can I look at this from another point of view? Not that I disagree with alot that you all said, in fact I did agree, but…how about the fact that women were not even allowed in temples? This was not the place for a woman, not even our Blessed Mother. Does this not prove that there should be a separation between the ministry of men and of women? She was responsible for bearing and raising our Savior, that is a hard enough job, just ask any mom…I certainly don’t find it an easy task. Men were the ones who followed Christ (Despite what that stupid Davincci book says about Mary Magdalene being a disciple) to learn from him. Men are tasked with being the head of the household when it comes to teaching about God so it makes sense that men there when Jesus taught about casting out demons and having the faith to walk on water. Our Blessed Mother did what was asked of her, she was born without sin, bore the Christ and kept herself in purity for God. She is more than deserving of the honor we can bestow upon her. Her faith in our Lord is remarkable, in fact saintly.


#14

Hello to you Malachi4U,

If it is the title of the thread that has got you upset, hear this. I did not mean it as a rhetorical question. I really meant it to spark a discussion as to how strong Mary’s faith really was. Some members have chosen to remind me of the times Mary showed great faith, such as the annunciation.

[quote=Malachi4U]How sad that to this day reformers keep reforming Christian beliefs right out of their own theology.
[/quote]

It is not my intention to reform Christian beliefs out of my theology. The ultimite goal would be to distill away any non-Christian beliefs out of my theology. One way I know to do that is to boil the pot. This forum is an excellent place to do that. Put ideas out on the forum. The ideas will get beat up from all sides. Truth can take a beating. The idea is that falsehoods will not survive, and a more pure Christian theology will remain. I doubt Mary’s sinlessness. My mind may be changed if Marian dogmas withstand all the logical beatings I can think to throw at them.

[quote=Malachi4U]How sad the Catholic Church preserved a few books cannonized in her Bible and declared them inspired only to see reformers like a homosexual King of England and an immoral heritic monk change them and delete entire books from her bible.
[/quote]

I would prefer, if you please, not to be asked to answer for the sins of others. I have pleanty of my own shortcommings to overcome.

[quote=Malachi4U]Do you even have a point here other to insult the mother of God?:confused:
[/quote]

I am sorry you have taken my comments as an insult.


#15

[quote=Malachi4U]Gods peace be with you theophilus Angainor,
[/quote]

I am curious. What inspired you to name me theophilus? He seems like a pretty cool guy to me. What is your opinion of him?


#16

[quote=Angainor]I am curious. What inspired you to name me theophilus? He seems like a pretty cool guy to me. What is your opinion of him?
[/quote]

In Greek theophilus means friend of God.


#17

PS, Sorry if I misunderstood your intention on this post - if in fact I did? I read so many posters who love to insult Blessed Mary to cut down the Catholic Church. They use Blessed Mary like a door mat and discard her when done. Thats how much hatred Satan has put in them to hate Catholics and schism away from Christs body, His Catholic Church. She is the mother of my God, and yours, and deserves the respect He gave to her. She was venerated for 1,517 years till Satan began his reformation of Christs one holy Catholic and apostilic Church. Satan failed however. He reformed nothing. The Church is the same as it was. Only those that left the Church changed. The reformation is an utter and complete failure and like all past herisies, will fail as it is now doing.


#18

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