How the fall of the Wall has made war in Europe MORE likely


#1

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816481/How-fall-Berlin-Wall-war-Europe-likely.html

[LIST]
*]The Berlin Wall fell on November 9, 1989 and next month marks 25 years
*]But Europe is more dangerous today than it was then with Russian threat
*]Germany has become unpredictable economic behemoth under Merkel
[/LIST]


#2

The tearing down of the wall was a sign that the people had a change of heart for the good. Don’t forget that the country with the wall was the origin of two world wars and not a poster child of love and freedom. Who would not delight in those who displayed goodness toward their fellow man and a desire to set them free? The surge of those good people needs to be renewed and spread throughout Europe. The destruction of the wall cannot be a bad act.


#3

Makes the claim that the Russian natural gas monopoly makes it the ruler of Europe.


#4

I don’t have much time to comment at the moment, but suffice it to say we are still dealing with forces that WWI, WWII, and the Cold War never resolved. This includes the Russian need for Empire, German trade interests in the east, American isolationism, and other clashing world views.

The good news is that we are more economically intertwined than ever before. It will hurt the west and test our resolve, but Putin has a lot to lose also given that Russia’s economy relies on natural resource exports. During the Cold War and before Russia lived in a fairly self contained economy which is not the case anymore. This will help keep things in check.


#5

I don’t for a moment believe that the 2000s EUropeans will allow themselves to be sucked into something so 1900s as a transcontinental war.

But if it were to occur, I hope that whoever is our president will have the brains to SIT IT OUT!

The archaic sovereignties of the Old World and their prides are not worth one more American dead body. And the economic fallout would be less expensive to us than yet another war.

We are not the world’s guardian angel, we are a nation of human beings. One of 200.

Let’s for a change, leave the bloody stuff to the other 199!

ICXC NIKA


#6

re bold: Why not? Human nature is the same. Circumstances have changed, but I don’t for a moment believe that they are so fundamentally changed that a European war is an impossibility. History may not repeat itself, but it sure does paraphrase itself. The modern sovereignties are just the archaic sovereignties with an ugly grey coat of paint, chrome details, and a different motor that requires a different, particularly pollution-producing kind of fuel.

I think the warnings implied by your premises are valid, but let’s not get sucked into head-in-the-sand utopia mode here. That only feeds modern pride, which I consider analogous to racism.

I agree, we are not the world’s guardian angel.


#7

Not necessarily. European leftist views have caused western European countries to ignore, if not outright forbid, development of the highly frackable gas deposits there. The question is whether the bite of winter or that of the Russian bear will first cause them to avail themselves of what’s right beneath their feet.


#8

You are miles off.

America is the biggest threat to world peace at the moment and that is nothing new.


#9

“At the moment”. You mean at the present moment? What part of what nation has the U.S. annexed recently, as Russia has conquered and annexed Crimea and is in the process of conquering and annexing eastern Ukraine? What part of Moldova and Georgia has the U.S. annexed?

What part?

Don’t give us that old thing about 1848. Tell us what parts of independent, soverign nations the U.S. has conquered and annexed since, oh let’s say 1940, just to give you plenty of room.


#10

She probably isn’t aware that the USA has in fact contracted territorially since WW2.

We withdrew from the Philippines, Okinawa, various Pacific islands and the Panama Canal Zone.

We returned disputed lands along the Rio Grande to Mexico in 1968.

And islands along the Alaskan border were returned to Russia in the Clinton years.

Compare to Putin’s Russia, which seems likely to reinstate the CCCP while everybody’s back is turned.

ICXC NIKA


#11

From 1917 on, Russia never had a self contained economy. It depended on looting. First the Bolshevik government looted the wealthy. Then it looted the churches and monasteries. Then it looted the “middle peasants”. Then it looted Ukraine. Then it looted the poor peasants. Then it looted part of Finland. Then it joined with Nazi Germany in looting Poland. Then it looted all of Eastern Europe. It always looted its own citizens, from beginning to end.

But eventually, the victims run out of loot, which is why the Soviet Union fell. When it could no longer fill the gap by selling commodities from the earth, it ran out of money.

Now, Russia is back in the business of looting, or at least its leaders are, and selling commodities again to make ends meet.

Truth is, Russia does not “need” an Empire now, any more than it ever did. It needs an economy that is not dependent on the sale of commodities and a leadership that doesn’t steal everything.


#12

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