How to address abuse


#1

So my chaplain at my Catholic HS keeps forgetting to put water in the wine. When I'm at daily mass (with 2 other people) should I remind him to put the water in when he forgets? Also today at Mass my parish's Pastoral Administrator sat next to the 2 priests of my parish, in fact she has done this for as long as I can remember (I'm 17). Is this allowed? She pretty much serves as an altar server except she wears clothes in the color of the liturgical season and prepares the gifts on the altar and pours the wine into the cups and breaks some of the bread (we have large circular pieces of bread that are broken into many more pieces).


#2

Water is not required for the validity of the Eucharist (source), so I think it would be imprudent for you to correct the priest.

As for the woman serving, to my understanding female sacristans are permitted in the Latin Church. Her fashion choices are irrelevant, although perhaps indicative of her motivations. In any case, I think this is something to just pay no attention to.

Something I realize myself getting caught up over small things like this, but the important thing is to just trust the priests and focus on prayer (unless there's some kind of gross offense).


#3

You said that he forgets to put water and if it is the norm, i think he should be reminded. I think it is ok that this person sits with the priests on the altar if she is serving as a reader or eucharistic minister. I know the principal of our school does.


#4

There is no need to worry about either situation. No need to remind the Priest about the water. Also, no need to worry about the woman. If she is serving as an Altar Server that is where she would be expected to sit. I imagine if she is reading there is no problem either.


#5

Often, pontifical servers (ie those who hold the crosier and mitre with vimpae) sit next to the bishop, and in the EF there is a sort of huddle arrangement wherein they sit on the steps surrounding the bishop on the floor. However, the rest of the servers sit in their normal places, which cannot be confused with sitting next to the bishop. Also, emcees often sit next to celebrants.

I think it is unseemly for a server to sit right next to a priest without there being some clear differentiation between their places, ie, it would be very odd to see a server sit in one of the clerical seats when you have the three-chair side-by-side arrangement. However, if there were a clear differentiation, like an obviously different kind of chair, then that seems better. Emcees often sit on little stools, while the principal clerics of the liturgy sit on the clerical chairs.

However, I would ignore these bits. The only thing I would perhaps mention is the lack of water, which is perpetual tradition in the West afaik.


#6

[quote="LouisvilleRC, post:1, topic:346839"]
So my chaplain at my Catholic HS keeps forgetting to put water in the wine. When I'm at daily mass (with 2 other people) should I remind him to put the water in when he forgets?

[/quote]

While the water is not required for validity, it is prescribed in the rubrics, so, if you're on comfortable terms with the chaplain, there'd be no harm in asking why he neglects to add it.

[quote="LouisvilleRC, post:1, topic:346839"]
Also today at Mass my parish's Pastoral Administrator sat next to the 2 priests of my parish, in fact she has done this for as long as I can remember (I'm 17). Is this allowed? She pretty much serves as an altar server except she wears clothes in the color of the liturgical season and prepares the gifts on the altar and pours the wine into the cups and breaks some of the bread (we have large circular pieces of bread that are broken into many more pieces).

[/quote]

Well, as other posters have already said, while it could be indicative of her motivations, her choice of clothing is of little concern, as is where she sits. But I'm not sure what "she prepares the gifts on the altar" means, though. Whether it's an "abuse" or not depends on what is being done. Similar with the bread and wine.


#7

Old School: Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops.

But in 1994 a change was made allowing for female altar servers in the Church


#8

[quote="acadiANNA, post:3, topic:346839"]
You said that he forgets to put water and if it is the norm, i think he should be reminded.

[/quote]

Then I shall remind the priest at the next novus ordo I go to that the rubrics say it is normative that they face the other way :p.


#9

It is in fact a liturgical abuse to omit mingling the water with the wine, even though the consecration is still valid. Please point out the relevant section from the GIRM to him.

[quote="MorEphrem, post:8, topic:346839"]
Then I shall remind the priest at the next novus ordo I go to that the rubrics say it is normative that they face the other way :p.

[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but why not?


#10

Actually, only the hosts are distributed at our school Mass. Wine is never offered.


#11

It doesn’t matter. The only chalice the water is added to is the priest’s chalice (I know there is some discussion about this). Even at a Mass where Communion is distributed under both species, only that chalice has water added to it. And it is in the rubrics and should not be omitted, although the Consecration would still be valid.


#12

Please don’t “remind” the priest of anything in the middle of Mass.

However, this priest is your chaplain. I recommend you go speak to him after school or when he has office hours. Ask him your questions. He will be able to tell you what is going on and what everyone’s job is.

You also said that only 2 other people were at daily Mass. Is there a regular school Mass?


#13

[quote="Mrs_Sally, post:12, topic:346839"]
Please don't "remind" the priest of anything in the middle of Mass.

However, this priest is your chaplain. I recommend you go speak to him after school or when he has office hours. Ask him your questions. He will be able to tell you what is going on and what everyone's job is.

You also said that only 2 other people were at daily Mass. Is there a regular school Mass?

[/quote]

We have 2 all-school masses every year. Our daily mass usually has from 2-4 people present including me. Sadly in a school of over 1,000 students we can't even get 10 people to show up for daily Mass.


#14

[quote="EphelDuath, post:9, topic:346839"]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but why not?

[/quote]

However much I think ad orientum is the proper orientation for prayer it would be unseemly for me, a random lay young Easterner, to instruct a priest. I might be right but the only result will be enmity; plus I don't think it's very proper for someone in my position to correct a priest who would most likely be double to triple my age.


#15

While I agree with your opinion here, my observation is that this is a minority position on a lot of threads here :sad_yes:


#16

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